- Howdy, I'm John Hart Asher.

This week on "Central Texas Gardener," snakes, and spiders, and grubs, oh my!

As part of our 30th season celebration, we're digging into our archives to bring you a special episode all about critters that you may find crawling around Central Texas, and why, more often than not, these creatures can actually be good for your garden.

So let's get growing right here, right now.

- [Announcer] "Central Texas Gardener's" 30th season is made possible by Lisa and Desi Rhoden, supporting a love of gardening and nature for all communities.

Wanna know what happens to your recycled plastic?

Since 2004, H-E-B has turned 58 million pounds of recycled plastic into things like composite decking and Field & Future by H-E-B trash bags.

You can learn more at ourtexasourfuture.com.

(gentle cheerful music) - From scorpions and slugs to lizards and bugs, there are all kinds of critters you may find crawling around your garden.

But oftentimes, these critters can help more than they hurt.

So today, we're taking a deep dive into the world of these creepy crawlers to help dispel some common misconceptions, beginning with this interview from 2019, when Tim Cole of Austin Reptile Service dropped by our studio to school us on some of the snakes you may see slithering around Central Texas.

- All right, we're not on an airplane, but we've got lots of snakes.

That's right.

We're gonna be talking about snakes that can be so beneficial in the garden, and you're gonna meet a few of our reptile friends here in this segment.

We're joined by Tim Cole from Austin Reptile Service.

Welcome to the program, Tim.

- Well, thanks for having me.

- And we're gonna be talking about, trying to settle some myths about snakes, but also just talk about what wonderful creatures they can be in our gardens.

And you have in your hand there a magnificent-looking creature.

This is a Mexican milk snake.

Tell me a little bit about him.

- These are found in the valley of Texas, and this is one of the more colorful snakes we have.

- [Tom] Beautiful animal.

- A lot of people are familiar with a rhyme to tell the difference between the coral snake and the milk snake.

Well, for the Austin area, I wanna make this simple.

These aren't found here.

So you don't need the rhyme.

- [Tom] Okay.

- You find a snake that looks like a coral snake, in our area, it is a coral snake.

- [Tom] Okay.

- Now the good news is, they physically aren't capable of biting a person unless you do what I'm doing with this milk snake.

- Okay.

So note to self: Do not pick up a coral snake.

- Exactly.

(Tom laughs) It's that simple.

They typically are small snakes, averaging two foot with a diameter of a pencil.

They don't get anywhere near the size of this milk snake.

And yeah, they're not a threat to people, in my opinion.

You can leave them alone.

- Most snakes are very beneficial.

- They are.

- And they perform services that gardeners certainly understand, eating insects, eating vermin, like mice or whatever, so... - One of the more common snakes that gardeners find are the small rough earth snake, which is a solid color, brownish, gray snake, averaging about 8 to 10 inches, feeding on worms and slugs.

And just about everybody's yard, if it's got any moisture at all, has them.

You know, they'll live under sidewalks.

They'll live along the foundation of a house.

And they're fairly common in the area.

And sometimes I'll get a picture, or a phone call and email, and people are, "You know, I found a baby snake in my yard.

You know, where's mama?"

Well, that is mama.

(Tom laughing) They're only about that big to begin with.

- Snakes don't have to be huge to be snakes, in other words.

- True.

And like you were talking about the blind snake.

- Yeah.

- That's the smallest one we've got in the area.

- Right.

Well.

And I was just referencing, one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen in a garden, I was moving a stone and there on the ground was a Texas blind snake.

Iridescent pink with no eyes.

A really amazing-looking creature.

And again, benefit.

- And if you got a chance to look at the tail, you would've seen a little point on the tail and they use that hard point to poke a hole through termite mounds 'cause termite mounds have a hard shell on them.

So they'll poke a hole through that termite mound, crawl on in and start eating termite larvae.

- I'm joined over here by somebody.

He looks like he's beginning to fall asleep a little bit.

- [Tim] It could be.

- [Tom] Maybe basking in the light.

This is a bearded dragon lizard, not native.

- [Tim] Right.

These are native to Australia, but very commonly kept as pets.

- Looks like he could be a relative of our horny toad, but obviously, not.

- [Tim] Right.

- But a beautiful creature.

So you're bringing out another snake and this is a native?

- This is a native.

This is the bull snake.

This is the largest snake we have in the area.

- [Tom] Okay.

- Now if you live in Austin, these are east of I-35.

Because of the habitat, grassland prairie.

That's where they live.

Adults will average six feet.

I've seen eight footers.

- [Tom] Wow!

- Most of those were West Texas where they had a little bit more freedom.

But these are constrictors, taking on rodents and ground nesting birds.

- [Tom] Six or eight feet would get your attention.

(laughs) - [Tim] Oh yeah.

Yeah.

Eight footers got some body girth to them.

I've seen adults that have taken on armadillos and rabbits.

- Wow!

Now what's the appropriate response to somebody who encounters a snake?

I mean, if they've got enough fascination to outweigh the fear, how close should they get?

What should they do?

- I wouldn't get too close, unless they're extremely confident in identification.

- [Tom] Okay.

- But, you know, it doesn't hurt to take some pictures.

I like using iNaturalist app on my phone, which is a citizen science database.

You're familiar with it?

- [Tom] Yeah.

- And I always tell people, "Just take pictures and load them up to iNaturalist if you're not sure what it is.

It'll help you identify it."

- So this is, again, the bull snake.

And just a great-looking animal and one that, as you noted, lives on the east side of our viewing area, but probably wide swath of Texas.

- [Tim] And throughout the state, they're found not East Texas, but Panhandle, West and South Texas.

- Okay.

All right.

Well, bull snake it is then.

What is the most common venomous snake in the Austin area?

- Western diamondback rattlesnake by far.

That is the most common.

They're here.

They're not rare.

And, you know, they're typically not gonna come around homes unless they detect a food source.

- [Tom] Right.

And that food source would be... - Rodents.

- Rodents.

- Yep.

- So keep the area clean.

And most snakes like hiding places, right, in terms of, you know- - They do.

- It's an important part of their habitat.

- And a hiding place for a snake is a solid object that's very close to the ground where they can slip under and feel secure.

I don't consider plants that much of a hiding place that's favorable to snakes.

But if things get overgrown, you know, you might harbor rodents and rodent burrows and then we know who's gonna follow.

- Okay.

All right.

So beware the western diamondback is it?

- Western diamondback, in my opinion, is the only venomous snake in the area that's an issue.

We do have coral snakes here, but they spend 99% of their lives underground.

So most people don't even see them.

- [Tom] Yeah.

I think I've only seen one in my entire adult life.

- They're not an issue unless you insist on picking it up.

- Yeah.

That you won't find me doing.

(laughs) - There you go.

Unfortunately, I have seen on Facebook people who have done that and it's just... It's, yeah.

- Well, stupid is as stupid does, right?

(laughs) So who do we have now?

- This is the Western coachwhip.

- [Tom] Okay.

- Very active snake during the day.

They're not a nighttime snake.

And they like to live in grassy, overgrown areas.

What they'll do is they'll rise up above the grass, and weeds, and periscope.

Sit like a statue, looking for any small animal that they can feed on.

- [Tom] Fascinating.

Yeah.

- So they'll feed on rodents.

They'll feed on lizards.

They'll feed on venomous snakes.

They're not immune like the king snake is, but they'll grab them by the head so they can't get bitten and suck them down like a piece of spaghetti.

- [Tom] Wow.

(laughs) Good for you, fella.

- Now, if you believe in urban legends, you're gonna look at that snake, say, "Oh, this is the hoop snake."

People believed he put his tail in his mouth to form a hoop and would roll down the hill after you.

- Okay.

- And then when he caught you, he'd whip you with his tail.

- Okay.

Well, I'm not looking forward to that.

(laughs) - But you can see the tail looks like a braided whip.

- Yeah.

- And that's where they get their name coachwhip.

- [Tom] It has the most remarkable, alert, and curious look on his face.

- Very alert.

These are found throughout the state.

We've got Eastern Coachwhips in Texas.

We have the Western Coachwhip.

And these can be banded with a six to eight inch wide white band or gray band.

Out in West Texas, these are pink in color.

It's amazing.

And it's the same species.

- Okay.

Well, diversity is true of most animals.

- [Tim] True.

- We've got just enough time for maybe one more friend.

Oh, beautiful.

Tell me real quickly the name.

- [Tim] Albino Western Hognose snake.

These are bred in captivity.

- Tell us a little bit about your business and how you help folks out.

- Well, Austin Reptile Service is all about education.

We do property surveys and point out any issues.

We do snake removals.

I'm really good at convincing people leave the non-venomous snakes alone.

We do birthday parties.

We do school programs.

I train animal control officers throughout the state.

- Sadly, Tim passed away in 2022, but his legacy lives on thanks to Tabitha Blewett, who purchased Austin Reptile Service following Tim's passing to keep his mission alive.

Best-selling author Amy Stewart has made several appearances on CTG over the years.

Here's a clip from 2012 when she stopped by to talk "Wicked Bugs" with host Tom Spencer.

- So let's talk about some of the different characteristics that elevate a bug to wickedness.

- Yeah, well, certainly, if they're venomous, so if they can inflict pain, which is a defense mechanism.

Lot of insects that transmit disease.

And it's really eye-opening the number of different diseases that are transmitted by mosquitoes and other biting insects.

And then some very destructive ones.

So generally, I do not consider a bug to be wicked just because it eats plants 'cause that's what they're supposed to do.

Nature's meant to work that way.

That is their food source.

So when I go out in my garden and I see a lot of bug bites in my plants, I think, "Well, that's a good thing.

I have an ecosystem here and it's working."

But some have caused such catastrophic damage on such a huge scale that I call it wicked because they've really changed the course of civilization for us.

- Well, you've brought some interesting bugs along with you.

- I did.

- And we're gonna hit some of those that are wicked to humans and wicked for other reasons.

Let's start with the human ones, 'cause I think that probably has grabbed some people's attention.

- Right.

- There are some truly frightening critters out there.

You know, here in Texas, we like to think we're tough.

You know, we've got fire ants, killer bees, you name it.

We deal with it.

But we do not deal with the Giant Asian Hornet, for example, which is one that you focus on.

- Yes.

This is an enormous hornet that lives in Japan and is coming into the cities more and more.

So you see it in the summer in Tokyo actually digging through the trash, looking for little bits of fish that it can take back and feed to its young.

But very powerful sting.

There's a researcher in Tokyo who focuses exclusively on the Asian Giant Hornet, and he says that it feels like a hot nail through the leg when he gets stung.

- That you would remember, I think.

- Yes.

And it can be fatal.

30 or 40 people die every year from the sting of the Asian Giant Hornet.

- Now I understand that they have a favorite prey that has come up with a unique way of defending itself.

- Right.

So this is the really bad thing they do is that they attack Japanese honeybees.

And they send a scout out first to check out the hive.

And if they do invade the hive, they rip the little honeybees apart, just rip their heads off, tear them from limb to limb, steal their young, take them back and feed them to their own young and steal the honey.

So it's a terrible thing.

So what the honeybees have done is that when that scout first shows up, they surround it and make a swarm around it and just sort of hover in the air and cook the hornet to death by just their body temperature.

- [Tom] That's amazing.

- It is incredible.

They raise it to exactly 116 degrees, which kills the hornet.

- Well, thank goodness for the cleverness of the honeybees.

- The cleverness.

Yes.

- Maybe they'll keep them at bay or at least on that side of the Pacific Ocean.

- I know.

Yeah.

- All right.

Black widow spiders.

And this is one I have had personal relationship with 'cause I have actually been stung by one and it's the only time in my adult life I've ever had to go to an emergency room.

- Really?

- Yeah.

- Yes.

Well, black widows do bite and it is gonna hurt, but you lived to tell the tale.

- That's true.

- This is important.

So you got through it.

Were you hospitalized overnight?

Were you out of work?

- I was at work the next day with a very bad headache.

You know, but I received a shot of adrenaline and something else, but I can't remember what that something else was.

- So you went to the emergency room?

So what brought on the sting though?

I think this is the key element.

- Well, I had cleared a lot of brush in my garden.

And I had picked it up like this.

And got bit in my forearm while I was carrying the brush to set it aside.

- Right.

So, you know, that is prime spider habitat, right?

Sort of a neglected, brushy area is where they're gonna set up their webs.

So when you go charging into that, you are in their territory at that point.

You know, you're kind of asking for it.

I would pile it all up on a tarp and drag the tarp around.

I would not take a large load of spider habitat into my arms, right?

Up against my neck and my heart.

(laughs) That would just be a tip maybe.

- Yeah.

That's sounds like a pretty good idea.

(Amy laughs) And you also had... We were talking earlier, you mentioned the fact that, you know, sometimes gloves are a good thing to use as well.

- Gloves might be a good thing.

Yes.

Long sleeves.

You know, I have those kind of long gloves that you can tuck your sleeves into.

I mean, stuff like that when we're out in the garden.

And this is true with plants as well.

There are a lot of plants that can give a pretty bad rash and there are plant poisons that can enter the bloodstream very easily.

It is not a bad idea to wear a little protective clothing out there.

- [Tom] Sure.

Sure.

- Yeah.

- Let's talk about some of the other, the grasshopper, for example, is a real common one that we deal with here in Central Texas.

- So what people don't realize is that some, not all, some species of grasshopper, when they're under stress and competing too much for food, give birth to a generation that looks and acts completely different from them.

They're bigger, darker, more ready to swarm.

They are locusts.

A locust is nothing more than a grasshopper under stress.

And so we had these plagues of locusts over the American West in the late 1800s, the Rocky Mountain Locust.

Farmers were saying, "We've never seen this thing before."

And they were right.

They had never seen it before 'cause they were grasshoppers last year.

- Since that taping, the Asian Giant Hornet has actually made an appearance stateside with confirmed sightings having taken place in Washington state in 2019.

But thanks to aggressive efforts, the species has since been declared officially eradicated in the US.

As a pioneer of Austin's organic gardening scene, John Dromgoole has been a fixture on CTG since the 1990s.

Here's a clip from 2014 when he was joined by some lively co-hosts during a composting tutorial.

- Look at this guy right here.

This is a giant grub worm.

These are not problems.

Look, I can pick them up and handle them.

You can do the same thing.

And they become the rhinocerous beetle.

Big old, nice, beneficial insect that helps decomposing matter in the garden.

So I'd leave those alone.

If they're in the way and you don't like them there, just relocate them.

You don't have to kill them or throw them very far.

These guys are really nice and they'll find another spot.

Right now, they're looking at this pile over here and trying to find their way over to it in order to move into it and be safe once again.

This is their first time out in the open.

So the most important thing that the organic gardener uses is some good compost.

And when you find the occasional little grub in there or the occasional giant grub in there or some other earwigs and other critters, they're all part of the process of breaking down organic matter.

It's the way it happens in nature.

So I wouldn't worry about those guys.

Move them out of the way and they're gonna be fine.

- We are now joined by John Dromgoole, the Natural Gardener himself.

You've seen him here in our studio many times over the years in our Backyard Basics segments, but we are so excited to have him back as a guest today.

Welcome, John.

- Thank you very much, John.

And I am excited too.

- Oh, well, wonderful.

Well, let's jump in.

Your role with "Central Texas Gardener" dates back to the '90s, if I'm correct.

And I just want to talk a little bit about how you came to be involved with the show.

- Well, I was getting to be known for writing for "Organic Gardening Magazine."

I was on KLBJ Radio already for several years and doing public talks, doing things like that.

So people were beginning to know me.

But Tom Spencer was on KLBJ also the hour before me.

So we got to know each other.

He would do his show then leave and I would do one.

And so I got invited to come out once and then again, and then we spent 25 years doing that.

- Wow.

That's amazing.

- It was.

- Well, since you've been part of this, and you've done many, many segments, and we're celebrating our 30th anniversary of the show, of which you're an important, important part, I wanted to ask if there are any sort of memorable or favorite segments that you did in the past you'd like to share.

- Memorable.

Well, that grub one is really one.

(John laughs) And well, there were many, and it was the manufacturer of little things at home or screens or products that weren't there, but tools you could make at home.

And so they were all good.

It made me do my homework.

I had to go make sure that when I got down here, I had it right.

- Well, today, this show's really focused on critters.

And I know, you know, with a lot of folks gardening, there are misconceptions that insects are... if they make appearance in your garden, they're a bad thing.

And I wanted to talk to you about how people, if they discover those critters, like really how should they interact with them?

And how might they sort of move that displaced fear and really start to understand that that's part of that food web, whether it's in the soil or whether it's above ground?

- It's the soil, really, the most important... The other half of the plant's in the soil, you know?

And so building a healthy soil is important, but these critters do show up.

The majority of the insects out there are beneficial.

The great majority of them are.

But when you're working, you know, it's be good to get a little booklet.

Rodeo Press has some.

You can go online now and find anything you want.

So if you see something, you can go identify it and know much more about it.

- Right.

iNaturalist is a great resource for that.

- Yes.

Okay.

So that's one of those things that people should do, not just ignore it or pour something on it and get rid of it.

You know, caterpillars are what we know today as these butterflies that we're all praising and enjoying so much.

And so before though, it was picking them off, getting rid of them.

And so the awareness comes from the gardener.

That's the one that learns about what they're looking at.

But there are some problems, you know?

One of them is that little worm, that caterpillar, I mean, that's fuzzy.

That thing, if you pick it up or run into it, will burn you.

That thing, you don't pick those up because it's an asp and so that'll just sting you bad.

So you leave that kind alone.

The other one that you can run into out there is, and be totally unaware, your children or you can get into it, and that's the fire ants.

- [John] Oh, yes.

- If you're not aware, they like a nice, open soil.

They'll move into your garden if they get a chance.

And so they... You know, like these days, we see the mounds everywhere after rains, and they do that in the garden too.

So that's probably... Those are two of the critters that you really need to be aware of.

Everything else has got a balance or a reason to be there.

- Well, I think a great example of that too is, you know, obviously, like wasps, for example, or hornets.

You know, people are afraid of them 'cause they sting you, right, but they're actually a key component of a healthy landscape.

- And they manage the worms, they become that case bearer.

So the wasps are beneficial.

Many of us know that they're not gonna sting us if we're not aggressive.

You know, if you walk up to some dog maybe, and you're afraid of it, it becomes a little bit aggressive.

- Sure.

- But if you're real passive with it and be friendly, it's not gonna do anything.

And it's the same way with the wasps up there too.

So they play an important role in managing and balancing the environment.

'Cause without them... Here's what I say about getting rid of some of those beneficials that you're not aware of, and that is if you get rid of the beneficials, you inherit their job.

So you don't want to do that.

You just need to learn, to read more.

'Cause you don't need more work to do out there.

- No, no.

We've got enough.

- And sometimes, the plant is under stress and gives off an energy that calls in these insects to eliminate them.

- [John] Right.

- And that's nature finding that balance that's important.

- Well, that's a wonderful message.

And I love hearing that.

Well, besides that, any other parting words of wisdom you'd like to pass on to the viewers?

- Turn your cell phone off.

Put it somewhere else while you're out there.

It's a great place to meditate, and it's a great place for healing.

So use it that way.

The garden has many other things besides tomatoes.

It has an opportunity to heal and to meditate and to calm down.

And so that would be one of the things that I've learned, how to communicate with the plants.

Let's make sure that you and your plants get connected and things get better for both of you.

And that's one thing I really believe happens.

And I really believe that it's so important these days that we understand their and our need to communicate because it's part of protecting our environment and getting it healthy again.

So many things in the garden are good.

And look at it that way.

Understanding the nature of nature is important to the gardener.

- Well, John, thank you so much for sharing that bit of wisdom and what you've shared with us over the years.

You're a juggernaut in the gardening world here in Austin.

We just want to thank you for being here again.

Now we're gonna throw things over to Daphne who helped a viewer in need identify some crawling critters of their own back in 2020.

(upbeat playful music) - In late February, Coe Zander Vee started seeing hundreds of these critters on the house after having some landscape work done.

We checked in with AgriLife Extension Entomologist, Wizzie Brown, who tells us that these are millipedes, which are actually beneficial in the garden where they normally stay.

But they seek shelter in rainfall and drought, or if their habitat is disturbed.

Just carry them back into the garden if they're somewhere you don't want them, whether on your house or if they come inside.

- Be sure to check out centraltexasgardener.org for tips, resources, and to watch online.

Until next time, adopt the pace of nature.

Her secret is patience.

(upbeat bright music) - [Announcer] "Central Texas Gardener's" 30th season is made possible by Lisa and Desi Rhoden, supporting a love of gardening and nature for all communities.

Want to know what happens to your recycled plastic?

Since 2004, H-E-B has turned 58 million pounds of recycled plastic into things like composite decking and Field & Future by H-E-B trash bags.

You can learn more at ourtexasourfuture.com.

(bright playful music)