- Democratic societies can choose to either let the arts remain the domain of elite society, or a shared expression of community, accessible to all.

Today's guests are champions of making arts accessible to the largest number of Americans.

They're Pam Breaux and Todd Trebour this week on "Story in the Public Square."

(lively music) (lively music continues) (lively music ending) Hello and welcome to "Story in the Public Square" where storytelling meets public affairs.

I'm Jim Ludes from the Pell Center at Salve Regina University.

Joining me this week are two special guests.

Pam Breaux is president and CEO of the National Assembly of State Arts Agencies.

She's joining us today from Louisiana.

And from here in Rhode Island, we're joined by Todd Trebour, Executive Director of the Rhode Island State Council on the Arts.

Pam and Todd, thank you so much for being with us today.

- Happy to be here.

- Thank you, Jim.

- There's so much that I wanna talk to you about, but I think maybe for folks who are not familiar with what your specific organizations do, let's talk about that a little bit.

So Pam, you're the president and CEO of the National Assembly of State Arts Agencies.

What do you do?

- Our organization is known as NASAA for short, and we are the national service organization for America's 56 state and jurisdictional arts councils.

We were created to strengthen them, and so we work with these state agencies by providing research, by providing learning services, by providing advocacy services.

In effect, we help strengthen their practices, and we're their champion.

We're their champion in Washington and nationally.

- And so, Todd, you're one of these agencies, the Rhode Island State Council on the Arts is one of the agencies that Pam is talking about.

What does RISCA do?

- Well, so RISCA, as you said, is a state arts agency.

We're charged with stewarding the arts and culture ecosystem in Rhode Island, and also amplifying the importance of arts and culture to individuals and communities and development of communities as well.

We get our funding both from the National Endowment for the Arts and the State of Rhode Island, and we provide grants to support arts and culture work throughout the state to both artists, organizations, including arts and culture organizations, folk artists, arts and health work, schools and municipalities.

So a pretty broad spectrum there.

We also provide support through convenings and capacity building programs as well.

- So these are, I think, Pam, you said 56 different state arts agencies across the country and US territories.

Where do they come from?

Was this federal legislation that created this?

- Each state government has created its own state arts agency.

And so there's a long history of the development of state arts agencies, beginning in Utah in 1899.

Very early adapter of the concept of the arts being critical in public policy.

And over the course of time, through the 1960s and '70s, all 56 came to be.

- And part of that I know is the creation of the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Humanities, which I have to note was that legislation was authored by former Senator Claiborne Pell from here in Rhode Island, and I work at the Pell Center, of course, at Salve.

But the impetus for that stemmed from a desire to have some sort of federal investment in the arts.

Are either of you familiar with that specific history and why that was considered so important in the mid-1960s?

- You know, I wasn't here (both chuckling) in this position then, but a host of members of Congress came together, alongside the White House, to champion the place of the arts in public policy because the arts do have numerous roles in helping us as a country meet policy challenges.

So certainly art for the sake of culture and communities, art for the sake of benefiting communities and individuals across the country, as well as arts for the sake of helping to address various policy challenges our country faces.

- So I know that when Senator Pell first opened the hearings in 1963 that began that legislative process, he called for, and I'm quoting here, "A true renaissance, the reawakening, the quickening,, and above all, the unstunted growth of our cultural vitality."

So in the 60 years since there's been a National Endowment for the Arts, have we made good on the promise and the desire that Claiborne Pell had in 1963?

Todd, you wanna take a stab at that?

- Yeah, sure.

We absolutely have, and we're continuing to do that work over time, increasingly so.

You know, in the state of Rhode Island alone, we grant out $1.1 million annually, as I mentioned, to all the constituents in the arts and culture community there, recognizing the importance of arts and culture, the development of those communities.

And when I say communities, I mean around the state.

Through our regular grant-making programs, we touch anywhere between 33 to 38 of the 39 cities and towns in Rhode Island.

And we're very proud of that work as well.

That work looks different at different points in time certainly, and it's expanded in terms of the impacts and what that means.

You know, arts and health is a new focus that's emerging, that's getting a lot of attention, particularly since the pandemic.

And we're excited to be leaders in that work in Rhode Island.

- Well, so we'll come back to that in a second.

But Pam, I'm wondering, you know, so 56 different state arts agencies.

Todd gave us a quick overview of what they're doing here in Rhode Island.

How representative is that of the overall national approach to arts agencies?

- Yeah, it's fairly representative.

I mean, there are certain parts of the portfolios of state arts agencies that ring true across all 56 states and jurisdictions, and certainly grant-making to enliven public-facing arts activities that are affordable for the public.

You know, that's a through line that we see every place, but every state is different.

And so every state is addressing its specific needs and opportunities related to the arts.

And the state level addressing of arts and culture is actually part of the beauty of the federal state partnership in the arts, right?

The National Endowment for the Arts and State Arts Agencies come together, resources are shared from the federal level at the state level to respond to what's happening in states, right?

So that's special because usually federal money comes down to states to meet federal goals.

And this particular partnership is different because federal money comes down to state to meet state goals, goals developed by the people who would be receiving the services.

And so it makes that a special and unique opportunity to ensure that these public dollars for the arts in states are addressing needs articulated by the people within the states.

- So maybe, Pam, we'll stay with you just for a second here.

So why do we care about the arts?

Why do we care that there is funding, both federal and state funding, supporting the arts in our communities?

- Because the arts are improving our communities and improving lives individually and collectively across communities.

And the arts do that in so many ways, right?

Cultural vitality, as you mentioned earlier, is a part of that.

Certainly the arts impact our economy, impact positively, very positively our education, impact health outcomes, right?

A host of policy areas, when combined with the arts, really improve opportunities to address what's on the minds of Americans across every state.

- So Todd, when you think about that from your perspective here in Rhode Island, how does that resonate with you in terms of those five different areas and that impact on the arts and on communities?

- Yeah, sure.

You know, I think what's interesting is with any kind of arts and culture work, you see those impacts across those five sectors in varying degrees, just depending on the nature of it.

So at RISCA, we support in terms of just economic impact through our grant programs a lot of programs that occur in downtowns and main streets, and then liven them, many of the cultural festivals that people attend annually around the state, which has economic impact in those places, in those spaces.

We support educational work in schools and out of schools through our grant programs, again, but also through partnerships that obviously lead to development of full, complex, complete human beings with, of course, 21st century work skills, which are top of mind for a lot of people right now.

So that's just two of the ways in which we see that kind of manifest in Rhode Island.

- Yeah, so I went back and I looked at that authorizing language for the National Endowment for the Arts, and something you just said, Todd, resonated with me.

The legislation says that democracy, and again, I'm quoting here, "Democracy demands wisdom and vision in its citizens.

It must therefore foster and support a form of education, and across to the arts and the humanities, designed to make people of all backgrounds and wherever located masters of their technology and not its unthinking servants."

Now, it struck me as I was reading that, that was 1965, before social media, before artificial intelligence.

Pam, let's start with you.

What does this new age of technology and all that it means for creativity and for our public lives, what does that demand of the arts?

- It demands that artists and arts organizations continue their good work and open to, you know, today's technology, right?

The work continues and we are seeing artists and arts organizations use technology to enhance their abilities to get more arts experiences out to more people, right?

In a host of ways.

I'm gonna come up with an example here.

Community cohesion is one of the principles and the benefits of the arts in communities.

The arts promote that cohesion, that cohesion happens in person.

And it is also amplified, I think, electronically and through technology.

And so having both these modalities as an opportunity to ensure that the arts benefit more people is being embraced by artists and arts organizations across the country.

- So the benefits are not limited just to the arts community or to the artists themselves.

It's really a little democratic outcome that you're seeking.

Is that fair?

- Sure, absolutely.

And you know, we can personify that in a host of ways, right?

Let's harken back to economy, right?

Todd talked about the ways his agency enhances art's economic opportunities and impacts.

And, you know, a lot of people don't think about the arts in that way, right?

There are five million people who work in the arts, not just artists, right?

Many artists, many folks in a plethora of organizations in addition to folks from feeder industries that are thriving because of the arts, right?

So there are five million people in the arts.

There's a significant trade surplus related to the arts, almost $38 billion.

But we can think about it in everyday terms as well, right?

The arts enhances economies in good times and in bad.

During Hurricane Katrina, I was in state government in Louisiana where we experienced one of those really bad times.

And as part of the comeback for the city of New Orleans, the state at the time made a very specific decision to make an investment in a major arts event as a strategy to bring back not just the arts, but other components of the economy.

Right?

So we made a huge investment in Jazz Fest, right?

That festival that's filled with music, heritage, visual arts, culture, Jazz Fest.

And that brought back not just Jazz Fest, right?

Not just opportunities for artists, but opportunities across the economy.

So it brought hotels back, right?

Hotels filled up, it brought people into restaurants, that was good for the restaurant economy.

It brought people into stores.

It was good for local merchants, right?

It helped to stand up the economy, and the arts do that because there's a certain resilience to creativity and to the arts.

That's natural, I think.

And so supporting the arts in that way, bringing back Jazz Fest allowed the arts to not just benefit, but benefit other parts of the economy.

And that's an important part of how the arts benefits economies beyond jobs numbers.

- And Todd, I think you mentioned the COVID pandemic a few minutes ago.

You know, how did the arts community help with the response to the pandemic and the recovery that followed, here in Rhode Island in particular?

- Yeah, I mean, tremendously.

You know, very early, on I worked in state government at that point in time, and there was an initiative launched in May of that year of 2020 called Rhode Island Arts that amplified... A calendar that amplified arts and culture opportunities that were free for people to participate in 'cause it was recognized very early on that in the time we were in, that the arts were gonna provide a place of connection and solace and a bomb for the time that we were in to what we were talking about earlier in terms of technological advancements, as Pam very well said.

You know, we were able to use technology as a conduit for arts and culture, and its power to connect and heal at that point in time.

And what we've really seen since then, which is pretty fantastic, is as Pam was saying, again, that continues to be a point of access, having the technology available, and an increased interest in participation in the arts and the doing of arts and culture work as a means of feeling connected, both to oneself and the full potentials of oneself, but also to others within one's community as well.

So, you know, the arts and culture sector and the State of Rhode Island did tremendous work during the pandemic, and it continued to do that after the pandemic as well, with the traumas that people are continuing to process and feel, particularly our young people in schools.

- Yeah, and in fact, I think Rhode Island has been one of the real national leaders of linking the arts to public health and health and wellness more generally.

Could you say a little bit about the work you're doing in that space?

- Yeah, absolutely.

So in 2016, RISCA partnered with the Rhode Island Department of Health to develop the first-in-the-nation multi-agency arts and health plan for the state.

It was really exciting work that happened, that was leading edge of what we're seeing happening around the country.

That recognition of the importance of arts and culture to the health, both of individuals and also to communities, both public health and just health outcomes more broadly.

Since then, since the development of that plan, RISCA has partnered to do two arts and residencies programs within two different state health agencies, the Department of Health in Rhode Island, and also the Executive Office of Health and Human Services.

We also launched in 2018 an arts and health grant program that supported arts interventions in clinical and nonclinical settings.

And we've supported 46 projects since then around the state.

Most recently, and Pam can speak more to this too, I think, in recognition post-pandemic of the importance of arts and culture and what it did in that moment, the White House Domestic Policy Council in early 2023, in January, I believe, partnered with the National Endowment for the Arts on a convening that focused on the importance of arts and culture to wellbeing and also addressing the pandemic of social isolation.

As a part of that, the NEA also announced that they were going to be providing additional funds to state arts agencies to support arts in health work.

So RISCA have received that in this fiscal year.

We received $75,000, and we're using that to reinvigorate our arts and health network that we started developing in Rhode Island, and also amplify the grant programs we have, and thinking about ways to amplify what we all know and feel about arts and culture and its importance in terms of health, again, to both individuals and communities.

- You know, how much of that is... So the work that you're doing at RISCA is remarkable.

How much of that is also dependent though on having willing partners in non-arts agencies in the state?

- Yeah.

I'm glad you brought that up 'cause I was remiss in mentioning earlier that in addition to all the things that RISCA does in terms of the money we grant out, et cetera, we also view our role in state government as being an interagency partner because all the issues that we're all facing right now that are overwhelming in terms of cost of housing, you know, affordability, education, et cetera, these are both arts issues and arts is a part of the solution and can be a part of the solution.

So I mentioned with the arts in health work, the partnership with the Department of Health, since then, that's evolved to include the Office of Healthy Aging as well.

Since you might know, Jim, Rhode Island has a... I believe over 20% of the population is over the age of 65.

So we're thinking about ways of working together to address the needs of that population as well.

So the thing about the arts, and this has always been the case, is we're very open to partnership and collaboration.

We're working with other agencies to address the priorities they have, again, indicating and uplifting the importance of arts as a catalyst and a partner in addressing those issues as well.

So in this moment, we're seeing a lot of openness and willingness to that kind of thinking and that kind of collaboration.

- Pam, I know that a lot of times, these issues, they're big, they're overwhelming.

I'm wondering if in the course of your career, there's one project that you've been involved in where you just sort of went, "Wow, this is why I wanted to do this work."

Now, I stipulate up front that we love all of our children equally, but was there just one thing that you did that was just a wow moment for you?

- Never Just one thing.

Never just one thing.

But I'll select one, right?

- Okay.

- And I'll stay in this vein of the arts facilitating good health because it is happening.

The outcomes are there, and science is catching up, right?

And the research is demonstrating that so much about the arts works for wellness, right?

Whether we're talking about creative activities for older adults, helping them improve physically, emotionally, mentally, right?

Whether we're talking about arts therapies, creative arts therapies for members of the military, folks who've experienced traumatic brain injuries, really opening their bodies up to healing through the arts, right?

Whether we're talking about that in the clinical setting or in the community setting, it is working for people.

It's working for members of the military.

There's an organization in Alexandria, Virginia, their acronym is ASAP.

They are the Armed Services Arts Partnership, and they use comedy and music to treat, if you will, or perhaps not treat, to assist veterans in their healing processes, right?

So through comedy, through music, through writing, those activities bring folks back to life, bring them out of their shell, allow them to process and open their minds in ways that promotes healing, right?

And so I would say the connections, plural, between arts and health and the various ways that's impacting people across the country, and the fact that the medical community and the research community are demonstrating through research, through analysis that this is critical and should continue.

That's a huge wow for me.

And I'm so glad that I'm experiencing this moment in my career.

- It's tremendous work.

So I know that in FY 26, so the current fiscal year, the administration's original budget sought to end federal funding for the National Endowment for the Arts.

That did not happen.

And one of the things that's remarkable about the work in the arts community is that there really seems to be bipartisan support in Congress for this work, in this hyper-partisan environment that we're operating in today.

What explains that bipartisan support in both the House and the Senate?

Pam, let's start with you.

- Yeah, we are so pleased that we have the benefit of bipartisan support, not just in Congress, but at state levels and at local levels.

And I think it's there because policymakers see the important connections between public funding of the arts and meeting important policy goals, right?

We've talked already about the economy and we've talked already about education and health.

Let's bring community cohesion into the mix, right?

Community cohesion is critical in communities of every size.

It's especially critical today as we faced a political environment that's so polarized, right?

Let's take small communities, for example.

I was recently in a beautiful small town in Minnesota, Waseca, Minnesota, and I had the opportunity to speak with a county commissioner.

And she told me several things I'll never forget, but related to community cohesion, one thing she mentioned was that especially for rural communities where people live farther apart from each other, we need the arts because the arts create community.

They create the community that brings us together.

And we need that to be the community, to be a cohesive community.

And it was brilliant, profound, she was profound in a number of ways, but policymakers see that, right?

The arts belong to all of us.

It's not in the domain of the left or the right, it belongs to us all, and the benefits belong to us all.

And so when we think about the arts in terms of the benefits they bring, you know, the economic benefits, the educational benefits, health, community cohesion, preserving our heritage for the future, right?

These are consensus values.

They're not political values, they're consensus values that we can all get behind.

And I think that's why policymakers from the left, the right and the middle support public funding of the arts.

- That's profound.

I could talk to you all day.

We've got about 90 seconds left.

Todd, if, in a worst case scenario, public funding for the arts dried up tomorrow, what would we miss?

- What would we miss?

You know, I think that something that I've heard Pam say before is that whether or not someone identifies as a consumer of arts and culture, we all benefit from the public funding of it because of what it does, certainly to, as Pam said, the cohesion of our communities.

And I think also the importance of arts and culture experiences in education to development of a fully realized electorate, right?

And the importance that it plays to our democracy.

There is a famous, famous, Quaker activist, Rachel Davis DuBois, used to say that there was three components to a functioning democracy: political, economic, and cultural.

And supporting arts and culture through public funding ensures that we have an effective cultural democracy and ensures that we therefore have an effective democracy.

So yeah, so I'll just end it with that, I think, there.

But I think that again also speaks to what Pam was saying about the importance of what it does for community cohesion and connection as well.

Those are really critical for a functioning democracy and a healthy society.

- Well, Pam Breaux of the National Assembly of State Arts Agencies, and Todd Trebour of the Rhode Island State Council on the Arts, thank you both for spending some time with us this week.

But that is all the time we have.

If you wanna know more about "Story in the Public Square," you can find us on social media or visit salve.edu/pellcenter where you can always catch up on previous episodes.

Thank you for being part of this conversation.

I'm Jim Ludes from the Pell Center at Salve Regina University.

I hope you'll join us again next time.

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