- I feel the pain of all those people that are renting.

I mean, rents are sky high, but is this the solution?

- [Donald] And we will never go back to where we were.

- [Angel] They're worried about the midterms, and they should be.

- His policies are on the ballot.

This was a, "You better show up at the polls if you like my policies, and you wanna continue to see progress in this country."

- People wanna know when their street's gonna get done, and I have no doubt that both the governor and the mayor are working around the clock to plow and that neither one is worried about budgets or anything else 'cause people will judge you based on what you do.

(vibrant music) - I am Jim Hummel, and welcome to this episode of "Lively."

We're joined this week by former Providence Mayor Angel Taveras and Sue Cienki, Rhode Island State National Committeewoman for the Rhode Island Republican Party.

If you were tired of your parents or grandparents talking about the blizzard of '78, now you can tell your own stories about the blizzard of 2026.

Forecasters predicted a monster storm, but I'm not sure anybody expected three feet of snow in some places.

That was one of your places.

You live outside of Providence.

30, 35 inches for you?

- Yeah, we had over 30 inches in Lincoln, and, yeah, it was a lot of snow, and I think that it made it a lot more difficult for everyone.

I hope people can continue to have some patience because of this type of snow, it takes a while to clean out.

- Sure, you know, when we first looked at the forecast, you know, they said 18 to 24 inches, which was a lot.

And then at T.F.

Green, it was 37.9 inches.

That is a lot of snow.

I am just amazed how quickly they were able to clear the main roads and the highways, and really thanks to Rhode Island Energy that they got people up and moving again.

We lost power where I was, but we had it back, you know, within the 48-hour period.

- So you and I were going back and forth, 40,000 people initially, which they were saying potentially they were planning for 100, maybe 150,000, which would not have been unusual in a storm this size.

And you said the original projection date was Saturday.

We're taping on a Thursday.

You're like, "I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to make it in," but it moved quickly.

- It moved very quickly, which I was really shocked about, how quickly they were able to get it.

You know, they said it was gonna be a wet, heavy snow, which is a problem on the trees and the wires.

I found it a little bit fluffier.

You know, maybe where I was living, it was fluffier.

It was a lot of snow, but fluffier, and I think most of the electrical problems were due to downed trees taking down wires and things like that.

But I was pleasantly surprised how quickly they moved.

You know, unfortunately for the school children, they had off last week.

The public schools had that off, and they get an extra week.

So now they can pretend they're from private schools 'cause the private schools usually get two weeks off.

(Sue laughs) - Right, in March.

- In March.

- One of your predecessors talked about the politics of snow, which can make or break politicians.

You had a big storm back in 2013.

- Yeah.

- That was the one.

- Well, we had a big storm but nothing compared to this.

I mean, it was about half this.

It was 18 inches.

- And it was still a handful.

- It was definitely a handful.

And I think the issue is this, that, one thing, people, first of all, they believe their problem's the most important one.

And that's just human nature in many ways.

So they're not worried about the arteries near the hospitals, making sure rescue can get in.

They're worried about their street.

So that's one of the toughest things.

The other thing, for this storm particularly, once you get to a certain level, you don't just have to plow snow.

You have to remove it.

And you don't have the equipment to remove it.

You don't have the manpower to remove it.

Remove it means take it out from where it is, not just plowing.

And anyone who had to shovel their driveway or shovel a sidewalk understands how quickly those snow banks piled up if you were just trying to shovel.

And that goes for plowing the snow.

And so this was a really difficult storm.

This was a lot of snow, a historic level in terms of the snowfall.

And you needed help.

And we're getting help now, I know, from other states.

I know Vermont sent some help.

I know that Providence is getting help from the National Guard in other places as well.

Everyone is really doing everything that they can, but it's hard because the more that time goes on, people wanna know when their street's gonna get done.

And I can tell you without any hesitation, I have no doubt that both the governor and the mayor are working around the clock to plow and that neither one is worried about budgets or anything else 'cause we never worried about budgets 'cause I understood people will judge you based on what you do.

- Yeah.

- No one's gonna worry about, well, they were over-budget by this amount or that amount.

You focus on getting the job done.

So, please be patient out there.

I have no doubt help is on the way.

- I think Peter Alviti, you know, should have retired last week 'cause I'm sure he was like, "Oh my God, my last day trying to get the snow out of here."

But the thing about this compared to '78 was, '78, they weren't prepared.

- Nobody knew what was coming.

- They had no idea.

I think people were very good.

The governor was really good about, "It's a state of emergency.

Stay off the roads.

You know, we know what's coming.

It's gonna be bad."

So I think people were very good about that.

- Well, I'll just add on something.

'78 was the middle of the day, and people weren't prepared, and people were at work and everything else.

This was on a Sunday night going into Monday.

The governor closed the roads at 7:00 PM on Sunday to keep people off the roads.

And so in terms of the timing of the snow on a Sunday night into Monday- - Right.

- Actually worked out well.

And that way you didn't have to worry about getting kids home from school or anything else.

You really just had to focus on the snow.

The closing of the roads was, I think, key to allow people to get their job done, the snowplows to get the jobs done, because part of what happened in '78 as well, you had cars that were deserted because of the snow.

And then you can't get to the car.

You can't get past the car.

It was really a disaster now.

- We were talking about '78 before.

You're about 10 years younger than I am.

So I was a senior in high school.

You were in first or second grade in Providence.

I lived in Central Massachusetts, and my mom had a job in Worcester, and the forecasting just didn't... They said, "Oh, a storm may be coming."

So they let her out at three o'clock, and what would normally have been a 15 or 20 minute ride, she got home at nine o'clock.

No cell phones.

My dad and I were like, "Well, Mom will make it home at some point."

The other thing I was thinking about, how many people had front-wheel drive?

Or all-wheel drive back then?

We had a 1974 Chevy Malibu, which was not going anywhere, and we got 45 inches of snow 'cause we were in that snow belt.

In terms of, you talked about Peter Alviti, I think this might have been, for all of the controversy he's had, I think he can go out with a win on this one.

- Oh yeah.

- 'Cause I think the state roads were unbelievable.

- Yeah, they were down to the pavement.

I was very impressed.

It's the side roads, you know, people, right, where they live.

You know, they couldn't get to the highway, but that takes time.

And certainly, you know, people parking in Providence, you know, you can't get your car... It's very hard to get major trucks through there, and you need major trucks and dump trucks to be able to move that snow.

I mean, I was shoveling, and you're right, the snow pile got higher and higher and higher.

You can't see my house from the road now.

- Where you gonna put it?

- Yeah, where you gonna put it?

- Yeah, no, I was just gonna say, listen, I think one of the challenges is that people have different expectations as well in terms of as the days go by.

For example, on day one, they just wanna be able to get out the house.

If they can get out the house, it's okay.

You know, there's a lot of snow, but you can get out the house.

On day two, they want it a little bit clearer.

By day three, they want a pavement, and they want like it back to normal.

This is a storm that's, I mean, we're now on, what, day four?

And kids have been out of school, probably will be out of school tomorrow.

It's gonna take a little bit of time because even though the main roads are definitely clear, where you put the snow matters, and also you can't see coming out of a driveway, turning onto a road.

So it takes a lot of time to address that.

So it's just, it's a matter of time, and folks are working around the clock.

And I know that, and I hope people out there know it.

And hopefully we'll be back to as close to normal very, very soon.

- Go ahead.

- I was gonna say, and the good news is it looks like the weekend's gonna warm up, so some of that will melt.

- So our station's on the Providence-Cranston Line, and even as we are coming in this morning, there were huge bumps.

It was like going through... It looked like it iced over, and then it refroze.

But I saw huge bulldozers over on Niantic Avenue, and that's what really struck me, is that the equipment... And the other thing, Mayor, is that we've got a lot fewer people.

It seems you're having a hard time getting teachers.

You're having a hard time getting cops.

You know, the city, and you know this as well as anybody, puts out a bid for, "We want private contractors."

I just don't think there's many out there anymore.

- Well, that's an issue, and you need to make sure to pay them on time.

That's something we worked on when I was there.

I'm sure they do that now, but the other thing is- - Yeah, not 90 days, right?

- Absolutely, you wanna pay them quickly.

But the other thing is that the equipment's breaking down.

I mean, I have someone who plows my driveway, has done it for five years.

He did it once Monday morning.

He was supposed to come back, called me, said, "My plow has broken down, I'm sorry.

It's gonna be a couple days.

- The snow broke 'em, right?

- And that's the thing.

There's so much snow that you needed heavy equipment to move it.

And even if you were doing it throughout the day, I mean, you know, equipment does break, and that happens.

And I know I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

I know on my street I had several people had the same issue because there was so much snow, so much more than what we expected.

- Even the cities and towns with their smaller plows, they couldn't work.

You needed that big equipment to come through.

And kudos to the other states, from Vermont to Maine to New Hampshire, that were sending us their big equipment.

So it was nice that other New England states were coming in.

From New York, they were coming in.

They didn't get the snow that we got.

Providence and Rhode Island made the national news.

They kept talking about Rhode Island.

- [Jim] Right.

- So it was very nice that these other states- - You know, we like to beat up on Rhode Island Energy, and I think they were preparing for upwards of 150,000, which would've been, I looked at the map this morning, you know, 63 people.

You talked about when you were mayor, power.

- [Angel] Yeah.

- A lot of other problems disappear if you have a warm house, and you can cook.

- Well, I wanna give credit where credit is due.

That was Peter Gaynor, Marine who led FEMA and is outstanding.

- Nationally.

Yeah, under the Trump administration.

- And he said to us early on when we had to deal with hurricanes, and we had to deal with snow that getting power back on was such a priority because so many of the problems disappeared when you had the power back on.

And so I think that having a relatively low number... I say low number.

It's easy for me to say because we didn't lose power, right?

But if you're one of the 40,000 who lost power, you don't feel like it was a minor thing.

But getting the power back on really does help, especially in winter because of heat, keeping people safe.

In the summer, if you have a storm or a hurricane, being able to keep your food and other things as well.

Refrigerated is important, but power, Colonel Gaynor would tell us, was such a key.

So we always worked very closely with, back then it with National Grid, right, that Rhode Island way, right?

It used to be National Grid.

- It was Narragansett Electric when we were kids, right?

- But we would have someone from National Grid at the Providence Emergency Management Agency during emergencies because we knew that that was such a big, big deal.

- All right, put it on your calendar.

I believe opening day at Fenway is in 34 days.

So just keep that in mind.

- Baseball.

- All right, yep.

- [Sue] Hopefully there'll be no snow.

(Sue laughs) - We can only hope.

All right.

President Trump broke his own record for the longest State of the Union address on Tuesday, touting his administration's accomplishments while taking multiple jabs at the Democrats in the chamber, with the critical midterm elections less than nine months away.

Sue, I watched all of it.

I watched the response.

I know the mayor did not.

We'll talk about that in a minute.

Two hours of my life I'll never get back, but I say that with the Republicans and the Democrats.

Your assessment on the speech.

- So I used to say, and people would say, that Ronald Reagan was The Great Communicator, but I think Donald Trump is a master showman.

I think that he used his time highlighting several people in the gallery, and I think that that was an appropriate use of his time, to highlight other people.

You know, sometimes he talks so much about himself and his accomplishments.

I think he used a lot of his time to highlight, you know, policy things that highlighted other people, from veterans to people that have died by illegal immigrants that have come in.

And I think he did that very well.

He brought in the US men's hockey team, and that was a unifying moment where everybody got up and clapped and said, "Thank you."

The patriotism was there.

And then highlighted the Democrats when he said, you know, "Our job in government is to protect Americans, not illegal immigrants, not criminal, illegal immigrants."

And when the Democrats didn't stand, I anticipate that that is gonna be commercial after commercial after commercial.

- It's the same thing that Joe Biden did several years ago when he said, "You're gonna protect Social Security, right?"

- [Sue] Right.

- It kind of boxed them in.

So I think that was a planned line.

I know you didn't watch it, but you've read excerpts.

- I mean, I wanna first say I didn't know Ronald Reagan, but Donald Trump is no Ronald Reagan, for sure.

And I'll just say something else in terms of I didn't watch any of it, so I used those two hours of my life more effectively.

I also saw that it was the lowest in terms of attendance for any of his State of the Unions according to the overnight ratings, which I know bothers him, which makes me happy.

But the one thing I would say about the criminal illegal aliens that Sue refers to, the data is pretty clear that most of the people, the majority of the people that he has deported or taken into custody have not committed crimes, may be undocumented, but haven't committed crimes.

And that's data that I'm sure people will dispute, but, you know, that's what it says.

So I have no issue, by the way, and I did work with ICE when I was mayor to go after people who were violent criminals.

- And that's always a big issue in Providence.

So what was your policy when you were in Providence?

- Well, no, one is, we were not immigration agents, okay?

And that's because we want people to cooperate with the police.

And you need cooperation in order to have effective law enforcement.

There's no doubt about it, okay.

I give an example.

The young man at Brown who came forward, okay, and helped solve that- - John.

- John, okay, helped solve that.

Do you think he would've done that if he was undocumented and was worried about being deported?

I doubt it.

Okay, so you want cooperation.

But the second thing I did was we had an operation, and we had violent folks involved.

Some of them were immigrants.

We worked with ICE.

We don't want violent people in the country.

I have no issue with that, but that's not what he's doing.

So let's be clear about that.

That is not what he's doing.

Okay, what he's doing is looking to have big numbers so that he can say he has fulfilled his campaign promise.

And in that sweep that he's doing, he's taking up a lot of people who are working.

I mean, they're going into workplaces.

They're going into churches.

They're going into all sorts of places.

They're picking up people when they're dropping off kids at school.

They're doing all sorts of things that, really, in my view are un-American.

- Let's get back to- - No, that was Don Lemon that went into churches.

You know, it wasn't Donald Trump.

- Well, we'll see where that case goes.

But let me ask you a question.

This president can say whatever he wants.

The problem is he's underwater on a lot of these things in the polls, and there are people who have been I think pretty deferential to him in Congress who now have to worry about in their own districts what's gonna happen.

So at what point do they part with the president and say, "I need to get reelected"?

That's a real concern for the Republican Party.

- Yeah, and I think with the State of the Union, you know, people say, "Oh, is it gonna change people's minds?"

It's not gonna change the Democrats' minds at all.

What we know historically, during midterms, when a party owns the White House, they crash at midterms.

This was a moment for him to say to the Republicans, "This is what I have done.

You better show up at midterms, or else we're gonna lose the House."

I mean, every indication will show that we will lose the House.

So it was more of a rallying call.

There were, you know, 77 million people that voted for him in '24.

We need those 77 million people to show up at the polls and vote.

- But he's not on the ballot, and that's a problem.

- He's not on the ballot, but his policies are on the ballot.

And if the economy does well, people get happy.

I don't think the Democrats are happy.

So when you're not happy, you're gonna show up at the polls.

So this was a, "You better show up at the polls if you like my policies, and you wanna continue to see progress in this country.

You wanna continue to see the economy doing well.

You better show up."

- The problem is the polling is showing that his policies are not popular- - Well, one other thing.

I mean, you know, I saw that the GDP under Joe Biden his last year was 2.8, and I think under President Trump, 2.4 going forward.

He is a good showman.

I agree with that.

I agree with that.

He could sell ice to ice to Eskimos, okay.

But the bottom line is people know whether things are affordable or not.

They feel it themselves.

They see it when they go to the grocery store.

They know when's going on.

Most people do not agree with his policies.

It's not just me.

The polls say that too.

I've even seen, and I don't watch Fox News, but I've seen on social media some pictures of polls from Fox News, and they show it too.

They're worried about the midterms, and they should be because people are gonna come out to vote.

And they're worried so much so that he did the unprecedented thing of having a mid-decade redistricting in Texas, which hadn't been done ever before, because they wanted to try to help Republicans.

And I'm glad to see Governor Newsom, he didn't just sit.

He said, you know, "They thought we were gonna go and write an op-ed."

He took action, put it before the voters, put it before the voters.

And they're doing it in California.

Now other states are doing it because you can't just sit by and let him fundamentally change this country.

- Yeah, but the gerrymandering going on in California and Virginia is ridiculous.

- That's on both sides.

- It is ridiculous.

And I agree, stop that- - I agree that California was in reaction.

They put it on the ballot, but just cut it out altogether.

- Cut it out.

- 'Cause I think it undermines people's confidence.

- I mean, I think there were adults in Indiana that said, "No, we're not gonna do that."

- Right.

- And that's a red state.

"We're not gonna do that."

And in Virginia, the voters already came out and said, "No, we don't want this to happen."

We want a nonpartisan, nonpolitical process.

And your new governor comes in and says, "No, we're gonna change the rules midterm."

- It's ridiculous.

- We actually agree on everything, but I didn't hear her mention Texas.

I didn't hear.

(Angel and Sue laugh) I don't disagree with you.

I prefer not to do it as well, but what precipitated this was Texas, and that was President Trump.

So that was excellent, Sue, except for you didn't mention Texas.

(laughs) - Well, we'll keep an eye- - You know, we're such a small state, and that's such a big state.

I can't even relate to that.

- They always say, "How many Rhode Islands would fit into Texas?"

(Sue and Angel laugh) We shall see.

- Well, I love that when they go, "You know, the iceberg is the size of Rhode Island."

- Exactly.

Well, we will keep an eye on it.

And again, this is just the jumping-off point to be able to go into the midterm races.

If you're a renter in Providence, you've likely undergone sticker shock the past several years, one of the reasons the president of the city council is pushing for some type of rent stabilization.

It's facing strong pushback from Mayor Smiley, who says, "Beware of what you wish for."

We could do a whole half hour on this.

You know, this never came up probably during your time there because rents have exploded.

We're one of the hottest real estate markets in the country.

So do you get involved in some type of rent control, or do you let the market do its thing?

- Yeah, look, there's no doubt that rents have gone up, and it's very challenging, so I have no issue with that.

And I can't say to you that I have the solution, but I can tell you this much.

Larry Mancini says it's gonna cost between 10 and $17 million to the City of Providence.

- And he's with the city.

He's the financial guy, yep.

- It's gonna cost between $10 and $17 million.

If Larry said it, believe me, you can take that to the bank.

That's what it's gonna cost.

And I know you'll keep a close eye on it if it passes, but you'll watch, and the city can't afford it.

I'm just telling you that right now.

In terms of the budget, 10 to $17 million- - That money's gotta come from somewhere.

- Absolutely, and the city cannot afford that.

So you better be careful what you wish for because you could create a crisis by trying to help with the affordability crisis.

So, it's a big issue.

It's a big issue.

- Yeah, I feel the pain of all those people that are renting.

I mean, rents are sky high, but is this the solution?

No, you see what happened in New York, you know.

I'm a New Yorker.

I saw what happened with rent control, rent stabilization.

You know, the landlords give up when they can't improve their property because they can't afford it.

They leave.

They abandon properties.

The city ends up taking it over, and they cannot maintain their properties.

Yeah, you gotta be careful what you ask for.

The intention may be good, but the execution of it is a disaster.

- So the plan would call for a 4% cap, and a lot of people worry that, you know, people who have... We were landlords for a time.

My wife had a condo when we got married, and we had tenants.

We didn't really raise their rates because they were stable.

You know, we didn't have to do turnover.

And I think a lot of landlords are worried that if somebody goes out that they would have to raise the rates.

The thing that was interesting to me is it said, "Newly constructed units would not be subjected to rent control for a period of 15 years."

Well, that's the new stuff coming on the market that maybe you would want to have some type of control if you were gonna go with that plan.

- Well, yeah, I mean, you know, they've studied, I think, St.

Paul and Portland.

I haven't looked at exactly what they've done there.

I just think you have to be very, very careful with what you do here not to create a bigger problem.

To have that type of impact on the budget of the City of Providence is significant, very significant, and it will create a budget crisis in the city.

And so they've gotta be very careful on this.

I wish I had a better response in terms of how to solve it.

I'm just not convinced that something that's gonna cost the taxpayers between $10 and $17 million is the way to do it.

And so I am very concerned about it.

- 48,000 units in Providence, so it's not an insignificant amount.

- It's not an insignificant amount.

And again, you know, you have to go to the root cause.

Why are rents so high?

You know, we wanna take these solutions, and say it's gonna go away.

Look at the policies that are being promulgated up at the General Assembly.

What is going on that is costing so much money for people to actually live here?

- Well, it's such a difficult state to build.

I mean, you know, the economics 101 answer is you build more units.

You have more supply.

So then the demand goes down, and the prices come down.

That's years off.

We're so far behind.

We've spent what?

We've allocated a quarter of a billion dollars of budget of the COVID money for housing, and what do we have for it?

- Nothing.

Nothing, really.

- [Jim] I mean, it's the thing's in the pipeline, but, I mean, the tangible- - It takes so long, and then people leave, you know, so you're building houses for people to leave.

We're losing population too.

So we're stuck in a quagmire here.

- Why do you think Providence is such a hot market?

I mean, we have such an inferiority complex like, "We're leading in something?"

I don't know if that's good or bad.

And it's great for those of us... I've often said I would never be able to afford the house that I live in now, and a lot of us wouldn't.

And you know, you think about your kids maybe coming back, but why is Providence such a hot market?

- I think, look, I think you hit it, the inferiority complex that I think Rhode Islanders have, we don't realize Providence is a gem.

And national publications realize it.

Other folks realize it.

It's not very far from Boston as well.

It's more affordable than Boston.

So you see more of that going on as well.

We have great universities, and thankfully they're building- - Don't forget the food, the food.

- Of course.

- Great food.

(laughs) - They're building more housing, which is helpful because that means kids will live on campus, not off campus, and that should be helpful as well.

But it's a great city that attracts people from all around the country, a great location.

And it's kind of a hidden gem that more and more people are discovering.

And so when I left mayor in 2014, we were voted America's Most Favorite City by "Travel + Leisure," and that was in 2014.

- [Jim] That wasn't because you were mayor, was it?

- Oh, I think it was because he was mayor.

- Without any doubt, without any doubt, but I think that that's one of the things that people don't realize sometimes.

I think people who are from outside of Providence appreciate it more than those of us who are from here.

- Why do you think we're one of the hottest markets?

- You know, I think we've got great universities.

We've got great food.

I'm gonna keep saying great food.

You know, you have Johnson & Wales, which is considered one of the great culinary schools in the country.

You know, I have friends from all over the country, and they talk about the great universities that are here.

It's small.

It's navigable.

You're right, it's in between New York and Boston, so it's easy to get to.

We've got great beaches.

You know, it is a wonderful place to raise and live your family.

- So this has still got a long way to go, even if we get through the city council, a potential veto, but something we're gonna keep our eyes on.

Okay, let's go to outrageous and/or kudos.

Sue, what do you have this week?

- Kudos, I just wanna say I spent the past two weeks watching all those Olympic athletes represent our country so well, a lot of dedication, patience from their families.

I just wanna give a shout out to all of those athletes that went and participated on behalf of the country.

I think that they made us all really, really proud.

- Every year when I watch the Olympics, there's something that you don't expect, and it's like, "How did they physically do that?"

- [Sue] The bobsled, you know?

- Yeah, well, that too, yeah.

(Sue laughs) - I think when Jason Kelce and Colin Jost went and rode along- - [Jim] He was terrified, right?

- They were terrified.

- It was crazy.

- And you think, "Oh, you're riding a sled down a track.

How terrifying can that be?"

But I think that they showed regular, normal people how terrifying that could be.

- Angel, outage or kudo this week?

- No, well, that's a great kudos, Sue.

My kudos are to all the municipal workers, all the state workers, all the unsung heroes who worked around the clock and are still working around the clock to clear the snow and to make sure that we can open our schools and to make sure that our cities and towns can function.

So, kudos to all of them.

Kudos to the elected officials, but particularly the unsung heroes whose names we don't know who left their families to plow through the night, who continue to do that, got a little bit of rest, and got right back out there.

So, kudos to all of them.

If you're able to get out today, it's because of them.

- I sent an email to my DPW director, who hears from me on other things.

Usually I'm complaining about something or asking for something, and I said, "Your guys did an amazing job.

Please tell them."

And I'm not sure a lot of people do that.

- Yeah, the DPW workers.

Yeah, they're working overnight.

- When they get an email from Hummel, they're not quite sure what to think- - I think our town, they sent out an email that, you know, they finally went home to sleep last night at 7:00 PM, but they were back at it at 6:00 AM this morning.

- No, no one goes to city hall to say that they're happy, so I totally agree with you that you don't get a lot of those emails.

That means a lot to them.

I'm glad you did it too.

- All right.

Angel and Sue, appreciate your time, and thank you for joining us.

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We'll see you next time right here on "Lively."

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