>> THIS WEEK ON A LIVELY EXPERIMENT, GAVE HIM A WINDS WITH A SURPRISING MARGIN OF VICTORY.

AND A NEW CAMPAIGN BY THE COMMERCE CORPORATION IS RAISING EYEBROWS.

0 LIVELY EXTREMA IS GENERALLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'M JOHN HAYES MY JUNIOR, FOR 30 YEARS A LIVE LAKE SPEARMAN PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US WITH THE ANALYSIS, ATTORNEY AND FORMER CRANSTON MAYOR, ALLAN FUNG.

MARIE MOBLEY, RETIRED POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR AT THE UNIVERSITY OF RHODE ISLAND, AND BILL BARTHOLOMEW, FOUNDER OF THE ARE FOLLOWING YOU PODCAST.

WELCOME INTO THIS WEEK'S LIVELY, I AM JIM HUMMEL, A VIRTUALLY UNKNOWN WHEN HE ANNOUNCED FIVE MONTHS AGO, SCORED A CONVINCING VICTORY IN CD1 ON TUESDAY THAT SURPRISED MANY POLITICAL PUNDITS.

BUT NOT THE CANDIDATE WHO RUN A STRONG GROUND GAME WITH A ROBUST TELEVISION PRESIDENT AND BENEFITED FROM CONTROVERSIES THAT ENGULFED HIS OPPONENTS.

BILL, LET ME START WITH YOU.

YOU ARE THERE THAT NIGHT WHAT WAS THE VIBE?

BILL: EXCITEMENT AND IT WAS FUN TO SEE GABE'S PARENTS THERE AND HIS SUPPORTERS AND EVERYONE WAS ENJOYED -- OVERJOYED AND IT WAS THE OPPOSITE OF ENERGY IN THE ROOM.

AT AARON REAGAN BERRIES.

JIM: AND YOU STARTED OUT AT REAGANBURGS.

BILL: THAT CAME WENT REALLY WELL RUN.

THEY FOUND EVERY KNOCK AND THE CAP -- NOOK AND CRANNY OF THE DISTRICT AND WERE ABLE TO EXTRACT FROM IT.

YOU CAN TELL THERE WAS NOT SHOCKED BUT OUR STRATEGY MATERIALIZED INTO A VICTORY AND A COMMANDING ONE.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS INTERESTING, THOUGHT THE RESULTS WERE GREAT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT HE -- HIS CAMPAIGN WAS.

HE HAD EVERY MENACE OF POLITY EXCEPT FOR THREE.

BROAD-BASED, WHICH IS GREAT.

HIS MESSAGE WAS RIGHT ON IN A SENSE THAT HE TOOK A RAMONDA THING, VERY LIBERAL ON SOCIAL ISSUES BUT RESPECTFUL AND MENTIONED HOW HE WANTED TO SUPPORT BUSINESS I THOUGHT THAT WAS A NICE MIDDLE-OF-THE-ROAD MESSAGE THAT RESONATED OBVIOUSLY ACROSS THE STATE.

IT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE THE PROGRESSIVES WERE SOMEWHAT SPLIT BUT I WASN'T SURE WHAT A GREAT IDEA WAS FOR BERNIE SANDERS TO COME IN.

I THOUGHT MAYBE HE WAS PUSHING MORE TO THE LEFT.

JIM: WE FIND OUT IN RETROSPECT THAT WAS THE CASE.

BILL: THAT WAS THE CASE.

TWO THINGS THAT JUMPED OUT FOR ME -- FOR ME FROM MORENO AND BILL WERE TALKING ABOUT, THAT PROGRESSIVE NETWORK, IT IS NOT A STRONG -- YOU STILL HAVE A STRONG HEALTHY BASE OF THE CENTRIST DEMOCRATS IN RHODE ISLAND THAT DID NOT WANT TO SEE THE AOC, BERNIE SANDERS TYPE OWING TO THE EXTREME LEFT THAT IS DOMINATING A LOT OF AIRWAVES AND SOUNDBITES GOING ON NATIONALLY AND LOCALLY.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT THEY PREDOMINATELY FROM A NUMBERS PERSPECTIVE HAD INFLUENCE AT THE STATEHOUSE BECAUSE THE NUMBERS GAME, YOU HAVE TO PLAY IT BOTH SIDES.

FROM AN ELECTORAL PERSPECTIVE, -- >> STATEWIDE -- >> STATEWIDE THAT THEY PROBABLY DON'T HAVE AS MUCH INFLUENCE AS SOMETIMES APPEARS TO BE.

SECOND OF ALL, ONE OF THE THINGS GOING THROUGH IT MYSELF, BEING THE FRONT RUNNER SOMETIMES IS NOT ALWAYS THE BEST THING BECAUSE YOU GET THE GUNS ALL TRAINED ON YOU.

WE SAW IT WITH SABINA, THE FRONT RUNNER, A LOT OF IT WAS SELF-INFLICTED WOUNDS WITH HOW THAT WAS HANDLED WITH THE SIGNATURE SCANDAL.

BUT WITH ERIN BEING THE FRONT RUNNER, THOSE LAST DEBATES, EVERYONE TRAINED ON THEM.

MAUREEN: THAT TOO.

>> THAT IS NATURAL, BUT WHAT IT ALSO SHOWS NEGATIVE WORK.

YOU ARE GOING AFTER SOMEONE, GABE PLAYED IT RIGHT.

JIM: WHEN YOU HAVE SOME BUT HE TO GO AFTER.

EARLY ON, BEFORE WE GOT WHO IS REALLY LEADING, THE ONE THING -- AND ALAN, YOU HAD IT ON THE HEAD, BARRINGTON 50 TO 23, LITTLE COMPTON, TIVERTON, A LOT OF THE OUTLYING SUBURBAN AREAS THAT MAY BE THOUGHT I AGREE WITH YOU MAUREEN, BRING IN BERNIE SANDERS AND THE SQUAD AND YOU HAVE MIDDLE-OF-THE-ROAD DEMOCRATS THAT WERE LIKE I'M LIBERAL BUT NOT THAT PROGRESSIVE.

>> IF YOU WANT TO CALL SUNDER CANO A PROGRESSIVE, I'M NOT CONVINCED EVERYONE THAT VOTED FOR AARON REGUNBERG IS PROGRESSIVE OR WHO VOTED FOR HIS OPPONENT IS SOMEONE WHO WHAT IDENTIFY AS PROGRESSIVE BUT COLLECTIVELY THEY GOT MORE VOTES TOTAL THAN GABE OLMO DID.

IT HAS MANIFESTED TIME AGAIN, DAVID SIEGEL, AARON REGUNBERG, AN INABILITY TO GET SOMEONE ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY PUBLIC POLLING.

ACADEMIC POLLING, MEDIA POLLING, -- JIM: INTERNAL POLLING.

>> WE RELIED ON THE INTERNAL POLLING AND IT DID NOT ASK ABOUT EVERY CANDIDATE.

THERE IS ALWAYS SOME QUESTION MARKS.

AT THE END OF THE DAY, AARON REGUNBERG MAY NOT HAVE HAD BEEN THE FRONT RUNNER.

HE MAY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN IN THIS POSITION THAT HE ENDED UP IN AND WE HAVE LOUD PEOPLE ON TWITTER AND CERTAIN PEOPLE -- PROGRESSIVES IN THE POLITICAL MOVEMENT THAT MADE IT SEEM LIKE HE WOULD DOMINATE THIS RACE WHERE THE END OF THE DAY IF WE COULD HAVE HAD MORE ROBUST POLLING WE MAY HAVE SEEN IN FACT MR. ALLEN REAGAN BURGS POSITION IN THE STATE IS LESS THAN EVEN IN 2018 WHEN HE NEARLY BEAT DAN MCKEE IN THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S RACE.

>> THE ONE THING I WOULD SLIGHTLY DISAGREE WITH YOU, I THINK GABE RELEASED THE POLE AT THE RIGHT TIME AND IT PROBABLY SHOWED EXACTLY WHAT THE FIELD WAS ON THE GROUND.

JIM: THE TIMING WAS PERFECT.

>> PERFECT.

MAUREEN: HE RELEASED THE WHOLE POLE.

SOMETIMES YOU GET AN INTERNAL POLE AND THEY WILL ONLY TELL YOU YOU DON'T KNOW THE QUESTIONS ARE BEFORE AND THEY SAY WHO DO YOU WANT TO ELECT?

SO YOU DON'T GET THE CONTEXT.

BUT HE GAVE OUT THE WHOLE POLE.

SO IT WAS LEGIT.

IN THAT SENSE.

>> FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I THINK THAT GAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE MAY BEEN ON THE SIDE I WILL LISTEN MORE AND MAYBE MAYBE HE TURNS OUT TO BE THE GUY.

HE WAS RIGHT THERE IN STRIKING DISTANCE TO EVERYONE'S PERCEPTION AND PEOPLE STARTED LISTENING PROBABLY MORE TO HIM AND SAYING THAT HIS MILD TURN IT HAVE, I LIKE WHAT HE HAS TO SAY.

JIM: AND HE SAID THE POLLS SHOW AARON REGUNBERG'S HEAD.

ALLAN, YOU HAVE HAD GREAT NAME RECOGNITION.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT HE MAYBE SHOULD HAVE SPENT HIS MONEY EARLIER, LIKE ALAYNA FOLKES DID.

AND GET OUT THERE.

HE SAVED HIS MONEY AND I HAD TO LAUGH AT THESE COMMERCIALS, YOU WANT TO PUT YOUR BEST FOOT FORWARD BUT HE MADE THE PICTURES OF OBAMA, BIDEN, THAT MADE IT LOOK LIKE HE HAD THE NUCLEAR CODES AND KEYS TO THE BEACH HOUSE, BUT SUBLIMINALLY IT IS LIKE THIS GUYS A PLAYER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE STRATEGY WAITING AND BACK ENDING THAT FOR THE LAST MONTH?

ALLAN: IT WORKED.

HONESTLY YOU'VE GOT TO ALWAYS BE IN FOCUS WITH WHERE YOU SPEND, HOW YOU SPEND, AND THE TARGET MESSAGE.

I'M SURE HE SAW IN HIS POLLING AND PROBABLY EARLIER POLLING THAT OBAMA AS WELL AS BIDEN PLAYED OUT WELL AND PROBABLY BRINGING A LITTLE NOSTALGIA WITH KENNEDY.

MAUREEN: THE OTHER THING IS HE IS WELL-POSITIONED.

HE IS TOUTING THESE CREDENTIALS IN OTHER WORDS, IT IS A BIG DEAL.

JIM: PATRICK KENNEDY AT THE END OF THE ENDORSEMENT.

MAUREEN: I COULD NOT TELL.

I DON'T KNOW.

ALLAN: WHAT WAS INTERESTING AS THEY HAD TO EXPLAIN THE KENNEDY CONNECTION IN THE FIRST COUPLE SECONDS.

JIM: MY OWN COOL, YEAH.

BILL: I THINK IS A LOT TO BE SAID THAT GABE MOHAN, THEN ALUMNI NETWORK AND SOME OF THE SURROGATES THERE, WHERE THE MAYOR IN NEWPORT, THE GROUND GAME THERE, THE EASE PAIN NEWSPAPER ENDORSEMENTS, IT JUST WORKED WELL IN THE -- IN THE AMO NETWORK CAME THROUGH.

ALLAN: SPEAKING OF EAST BAY, AS I WAS TRACKING NUMBERS, I AM A LAWYER BUT I HAD THE BOARD OF ELECTIONS.

THE EAST BASED SEARCH EARLY ON SHOWED, AND FOR ME IT WAS EITHER GOING TO BE GABE OR SANDRA WHO HAD A NETWORK THERE TOO SO THAT THERE SPARKED THE SURGEON I'M LIKE SOMETHING IS HAPPENING OUT OF THE TRADITIONAL.

MAUREEN: IT'S INTERESTING.

SHE PUNCHED UP, SHE CAME FROM NOWHERE, SHE HAD LITTLE MONEY, A GREAT GROUND GAME.

JIM: WHAT BLEW ME AWAY WAS THEY INTERVIEWED SAVINO MENTOS AND HOW MANY TIMES I WE TALKED ABOUT IT AND THAT IS PROBABLY WHAT SUNK HER ALL OF THAT SIX WEEKS OF WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING EXCEPT THE SIGNATURE SCANDAL.

THAT NIGHT SHE TOLD A REPORTER I WAS A VICTIM OF FRAUD.

SHE PLAYED THE VICTIM CARD TO THE END.

WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

MAUREEN: I THINK IT IS -- WELL I DON'T THINK SHE WAS THE BEST CANDIDATE ANYWAY IN MY OPINION BUT I THINK IF SHE HAD GOTTEN UP AND SHE WAS SORT OF LIKE AN ADJUNCT TO MICKEY, IF SHE HAD GOTTEN ON TELEVISION EARLY ONSET I WANT TO TAKE RESPONSE ABILITY IN THIS, AND REALLY TALKED ABOUT IT AND SAY I HAD SOME BAD ADVICE, I WAS NOT CAREFUL ENOUGH TO KNOW WHO MY CAMPAIGN-FINANCE PEOPLE WERE, BUT I HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THIS AND I DO AND EARLY ON -- JIM: YOU AS A CANDIDATE, YOU ARE REPRESENTING A LOT OF PEOPLE AND YOU FEEL BADLY, YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE LET THEM DOWN BUT I WOULD'VE COME OUT AND SAID IT'S NOT EASY TO DO OR SAY FROM THIS DESK TO SAY I MADE MISTAKES EARLY ON, WE DID NOT BET THE PEOPLE, ULTIMATELY IS MY CAMPAIGN AND I AM SORRY FOR THE PEOPLE WHO PUT THEIR TRUST IN ME BECAUSE I LET YOU DOWN.

HOW TOUGH WOULD IT HAVE BEEN TO SAY THAT?

ALLAN: THAT IS WHAT RHODE ISLAND RESIDENTS AND EVERYONE EXPECTS AND ONCE FROM THE CANDIDATE.

THAT IS LEADERSHIP.

ANYTIME YOU'RE DOING THIS, PEOPLE ARE LIKE WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON WITHIN THAT SHIP?

THAT IS NOT GOOD.

YOU ARE RUNNING FOR A MAJOR OFFICE.

THERE WAS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, GOVERNOR, THEY WANT TO SEE SOMEONE WHO IS GOING TO ACCEPT RESPONSE ABILITY, KNOWS WHAT IS GOING ON, OR EVEN IF THEY DON'T TO KNOW WILL TAKE THE DECISIVE ACTION AND BE TRANSPARENT ABOUT IT.

THAT IS WHAT VOTERS WANT.

MAUREEN: AND I WANT TO SAY ONE OTHER THING ABOUT MINORITY REPRESENTATION.

I REALLY THINK THIS WAS A FORTUNATE TURN OF EVENTS BECAUSE I THINK IT HAS BEEN DIFFICULT FOR BLACKS TO GET INTO PUBLIC OFFICE.

WE HAVE HAD A HUGE INFLUX OF LATINOS WHO ARE POSITIVE CONTRIBUTORS TO THE STATES, GREAT CITIZENS, AND THEY DO WELL ELECTORALLY.

BUT THE NUMBERS AND DEMOGRAPHICS KIND OF OVERWHELM THE ABILITY FOR AFRICAN-AMERICAN CANDIDATES TO GET ELECTED.

I THINK THIS IS A NICE DIRECTIVE AND IT SPEAKS WELL TO THE STATE AND I THINK HE WAS THE CANDIDATE.

JIM: I WONDER HOW MUCH IT PLAYS INTO PEOPLE THAT SAID I WOULD LOVE TO VOTE PAYING FOR MINORITY CANDIDATE BUT -- DO WE NEED FOUR WHITE GUYS IN WASHINGTON AND THAT TOOK THE SCALES FOR SOME.

>> SOME PEOPLE PROBABLY SAID WE HAD THE 2020 CULTURAL AWAKENING SO TO SPEAK IN THE WAKE OF THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD AND CONVERSATIONS THAT TOOK PLACE AND EVERYONE SAID WE NEED TO HAVE MORE REPRESENTATION ON BOARDS, MORE REPRESENTATION IN ELECTED OFFICES.

THEN PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS.

THAT IS SOMETHING I THINK SOME PEOPLE PROBABLY SAID YES, THAT IS IMPORTANT BUT I WOULD SAY THAT NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OR BACKGROUND, GABE AMO MAY PERCENT AS, PEOPLE VOTE FOR HIM BECAUSE THEY SAW HIM AS A CENTERLEFT FIGURE WELL NETWORK WHO CAN DELIVER AS A CONGRESSPERSON AND NOT SOMEONE WHO IS PERFORMATIVE OR HAS A VERY SPECIFIC AGENDA BEING LEFT, RIGHT, CENTER, OR OTHERWISE.

JIM: BEFORE WE MOVE ON, WE REPUBLICANS AT ALL BECAUSE WE HAD 11 CANDIDATES AND NOW IT IS CARRIE WHO IS THE ENDORSED CANDIDATE AGAINST TERRY FLYNN.

UPHILL BATTLE PARTICULAR IN CD1.

WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO THE NEXT EIGHT WEEKS?

>> SIMILAR TO WHAT GABE DID, YET WHO HE IS OUT TO THE VOTERS.

HE WILL HAVE TO CONSERVE THE RESOURCES AND USE IT JUDICIOUSLY TO GET HIS MESSAGE ABOUT WHO HE IS, WHAT HE WANTS TO DO, WHAT HE WAS TO ACCOMPLISH FOR RHODE ISLANDERS.

THAT WILL BE AN UPHILL BATTLE IN THAT DISTRICT BUT IT IS NOT ONE THAT IS LIKE YOU CAN'T OVERCOME BECAUSE STRANGER THINGS I'VE HAPPENED.

WHO WOULD'VE EVER THOUGHT SABINA WOULD DO WHAT HAPPENED IN HER CAMPAIGN.

ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN, IT WILL BE A SHORTER SPRINT BUT HE WILL HAVE TO DEFINE HIMSELF TO FIND WHAT HE WANTS TO DO AND WHY HE IS THE BETTER CANDIDATE THEN GABE.

JIM: BE STRATEGIC IN HAS DEBATES OR DO AS MANY AS HE CAN?

>> IF I WERE HIM, DO AS MANY AS HE CAN BECAUSE IT IS ALL ABOUT DOLLARS AND SENSE AND HOW MUCH RAISE -- YOU CAN RAISE TO GET ON THE AIR TO EARN MEDIA.

THAT IS ONE OF THE WAYS TO GET THEM.

MAUREEN: I ALSO THINK THE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN BOGGED DOWN FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP.

HE CARRIED 11 DISTRICTS IN THE LAST ELECTION AND THE MARGINS ARE TIGHT, BUT IT REALLY MATTERS.

IT CONSTRAINS LEGISLATORS, IT CONSTRAINS PEOPLE RUNNING FOR OFFICE BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO WALK THIS FINE LINE BETWEEN NOT SAYING ANYTHING MUTED SUPPORT FOR TRUMP AND NOT SAYING ANYTHING TO OFFEND HIS VOTERS.

THEY ARE IN A DIFFICULT POSITION.

MY HOPE IS HE GOES AWAY AND THE REPUBLICANS CAN BE -- CAN REBUILD THE PARTY AS THEY ALWAYS WERE, IN OTHER WORDS THEY WERE THE SOCIAL LIBERALS, THEY WERE THE FISCAL CONSERVATIVES, AND IF THEY MOVE TOWARDS THAT, I THINK THEY REALLY HAVE TO REBUILD BUT I THINK DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE DAMAGE TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

JIM: ALLAN, YOU KNOW THIS FOR SURE, WE CAME UP IN DEBATES LAST NIGHT, HOW MAY TIMES AS SOMEONE RUN UP TO YOU AND LIKE TO LOVE DONALD TRUMP OR HATE HIM?

ALLAN: EXACTLY.

BILL: I SAW LEONARD ON FOX NEWS AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT BIDEN MX.

AND THINGS LIKE THIS AND THOSE ARE OBVIOUSLY NATIONAL TALKING POINTS THAT WORK WELL, I AM NOT A GOP STRATEGIST BUT IF IT WERE ME, I WOULD FOCUS MORE ON, GIVEN BIDEN'S POPULAR IN RHODE ISLAND, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENTIATION BETWEEN YOURSELF AND GABE AMO ON MAJOR ISSUES WHETHER FOREIGN POLICY, HEALTH CARE, TAXATION, SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, THE NUMBER OF JUSTICES ON THE SUPREME COURT, WHATEVER, FOCUS ON THOSE ISSUES INSTEAD OF THE TALKING POINTS ON A NATIONAL LEVEL AND TALK TO RHODE ISLANDERS.

HE WAS ON FOX NEWS YESTERDAY BUT HE WAS NOT ON WP ARO IN THE AFTERNOON WHEREAS GABE AMO WAS ON WP ARO IN THE AFTERNOON.

MAUREEN: I DON'T THINK -- I THINK HE HAS MORE ABILITY TO SPEAK LESS CONSTRAINED.

IN OTHER WORDS, HE DOES NOT HAVE ANY BACKGROUND.

IF HE LOSES, HE LOSES, BUT AT LEAST HE CAN BE STRAIGHTFORWARD WITH VOTERS.

AND NOT HAVING THE TRUMP NOOSE AROUND HIS NECK.

ALLAN: AND TO LEAN INTO WHO HE IS.

HE HAS A GOOD STORY TO TELL.

JIM: MILITARY GUY.

>> FAMILY FROM RHODE ISLAND FOR GENERATIONS.

THAT IS WHAT HE HAS GOT TO LEAN INTO.

TELL THE STORY BUT THE ONE THING HE SHOULD FOCUS ON IS WHAT IS ON THE MINDS OF PEOPLE NOW BECAUSE WHETHER YOU CALL IT BIDENOMICS OR WHAT, PEOPLE REALIZE GAS PRICES ARE SPIKING BACKUP -- >> COST AT THE GROCERY STORE.

>> YEP.

THOSE ARE THE ISSUES THAT RESONATE AND HE WILL HAVE TO FIND THE RIGHT MESSAGING IN CD1 TO MAKE SURE HE GETS IT OUT THERE AND LET THEM KNOW WHAT HE IS ABOUT.

JIM: WE TALKED A LOT DURING THE LEGISLATIVE SESSION ABOUT LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS AND WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT REFORM FOR YEARS.

SPEAKER SICK ALREADY SAID HE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE THE YEAR WHERE WE PUT IT OVER THE FINISH LINE AND IT WAS NOT.

WHY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT IT AGAIN?

BECAUSE THE OFFICER, DAN DOLAN, WHO WAS ACQUITTED OF AN INCIDENT DOWN IN WEST GRANITE, HE WAS PULLED OVER FOR SUSPECTED DUI.

THERE IS INTERACTION WITH OFFICERS, THAT IS THE SET UP AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID IF THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS WAS NOT THERE, I UNDERSTAND THAT SOMETIMES IT IS JUST A BAD APPLE OR TWO BUT YOU ARE THE MAY FOR MANY YEARS HAVING TO DEAL WITH BORE.

AS YOU WATCH THE SITUATION, WHAT IS GOING THROUGH YOUR MIND BECAUSE HE IS STILL BEING PAID ON ADMIN STRAIGHT OF LEAVE?

ALLAN: THAT IS A WIZENED WHY AS MAYORS AND NORMAL RESIDENT YOU WANT HAVE COMPETENCE IN YOUR POLICE DEPARTMENT.

AND MAKING SURE BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF POWER THERE.

WEARING THE BADGE, HAVING THE POWER THEY HAVE, YOU WANT YOUR OFFICERS TO BE TRUSTWORTHY AND DOING THE RIGHT THING.

WHEN YOU HEAR STORIES, NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE, OF WHAT OFFICER DOLAN DID, IT OUTRAGES MANY PEOPLE AND THIS IS WHY I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A CALL, CONTINUED CALL, ESPECIALLY FOR MANY MAYORS, ABOUT GETTING CHANGES, NOT THROWING OUT THE LAW ENFORCEMENT BOARD BECAUSE IT IS A UNIQUE PROFESSION WE ARE IN BUT MAKING THE RIGHT CHANGES TO HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE AND DISCIPLINE OFFICERS OR IN THE CASE OF OFFICER DOLAN, GETTING RID OF OFFICERS LIKE THAT AND GIVE THAT 1%, BECAUSE THE 99% OF OFFICERS ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING, THAT 1% AND HOLDING THESE INDIVIDUALS ACCOUNTABLE.

MAUREEN: WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THIS, THEY HAVE MOVED ALONG, NOT MANY PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT THROWING THE WHOLE THING OUT.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THE LEGISLATURE OR POLICE UNION DIDN'T OPT AND INSIST ON CHANGING THIS BECAUSE IF THIS STUFF CONTINUES, THEY MAY LOSE EVERYTHING.

JIM: BUT THE POLICE UNION, MAUREEN, WE SAW THE FIRE UNIONS, THE CONTRIBUTIONS, A LOT OF PEOPLE GET MONEY FROM THE POLICE UNIONS AND IT WAS ALIGNED.

IT WAS ALMOST LIKE WE DON'T WANT TO GIVE UP ANYTHING BECAUSE THEN THE WHOLE SHIP WILL CAVE.

I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT BUT -- >> THERE'S A PROJECT ON THE GUESS A COUPLE YEARS AGO NOW WHERE SOME CIVILIAN WENT THROUGH EVERY NUMBER OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY'S CONTRIBUTIONS AND CONTACTED EVERYONE WHO TOOK MONEY FROM THE POLICE UNION AND SAID WHY DID YOU TAKE THIS MONEY AND TWO, DO YOU SUPPORT ADJUSTMENTS AND THERE ARE IS CONFLICT OF INTEREST.

IT IS NATURAL AT A CERTAIN LEVEL BUT ALSO PART OF THE PROBLEM.

LIKE YOU SAID, YOU HAVE THIS DOLAN, PEOPLE TALK ABOUT VIOLENCE IN PROVIDENCE, IF I'M IN WEST BRITISH, I WILL LOOK OVER MY SHOULDER.

WHAT, WILL THIS GUY PULL A GUN ON ME?

THIS GUY IS COMPLETELY OUT OF CONTROL.

IT IS OUTRAGES HE IS STILL A POLICE OFFICER.

MAUREEN: WHAT TO THE PEOPLE SAY WHEN YOU TALK TO THEM?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE GAVE MONEY BACK, A LOT OF THOSE LEGISLATORS ACTUALLY GAVE THE MONEY BACK OR DONATED THE MONEY TO SOME KIND OF CAUSE BUT IT IS JUST THE NATURE OF THE BEAST.

IT IS AN INFLUENCING FACTOR IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

IS THAT THE WHY WE ABOARD DID NOT GET ADDRESSED THIS YEAR?

NO, IT DID NOT MAKE THE AGENDA.

THIS IS PROBABLY SOMETHING MORE DEEP.

JIM: I THINK SOME PEOPLE PULLED THEIR SUPPORT AND THE SPEAKER DID NOT ONE TO GO FORWARD SO THE MAJOR, WE DON'T HAVE TO GET INTO ALL OF IT BUT YOU COULD ONLY GIVE A TWO DAY SUSPENSION WITHOUT HAVING TO GO TO IT SO SOME PEOPLE SAID 10 TO 14 DAYS, EXPAND THE PANEL BECAUSE THEY THINK SOMETIMES IT HAS WAITED TO MORE -- MORE TOWARD POLICE AND TALK ABOUT IT.

HOW FRUSTRATING IS IT FOR YOU ON THE CIVILIAN SIDE YOU SEE SOMETHING AND THE CHIEF IS LIKE I CAN'T SAY ANYTHING, LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

MAUREEN: IT'S GOTTA BE CHANGED.

>> THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME TYPE OF DISCUSSION ABOUT IT OR AT LEAST LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THAT IN MY ROLE AS MAYOR I WAS ALSO A COMMISSIONER, WORKING ALONGSIDE THE CHIEF AND HOLDING PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE, WHETHER YOU ARE A POLICE OFFICER OR ANY INDIVIDUAL WITHIN THE CITY OR AN EMPLOYEE THERE IS A PRIME RESPONSIBILITY WHEN THINGS GO WRONG.

AND YOU'VE GOT AT LEAST LET PEOPLE, FOR TRANSPARENCY PURPOSES -- >> TALK TO THEM -- >> TALK TO THEM.

AT LEAST GIVE SOME INFORMATION WITHOUT THE THREAT OF YOU COULD THROW THAT CASE OUT IF YOU SAY THE WRONG THING.

JIM: WE GOT A COUPLE THINGS TO GET TO P LESS OUTRAGES OR KUDOS.

MAUREEN: MY KUDOS GO TO MAYOR SMILEY AND THE FACT HE NEGOTIATED THE DEAL THAT COLLEGES AND NONPROFITS -- JIM: PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAXES.

MAUREEN: PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAXES, ARE GOING TO HAVE TO PAY UP.

I THING THAT IS THE RIGHT THING.

THESE INSTITUTIONS HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY AND I LIKE THE IDEA ALSO THAT HE SET UP THIS THING WHERE HE WILL HAVE QUARTERLY MEETINGS BETWEEN RESIDENTS AND SO FORTH.

BECAUSE BROWN UNIVERSITY IS A FABULOUS CONTRIBUTOR TO THE STATE BUT THERE ARE PROBLEMS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH STUDENTS APARTMENTS AND THINGS IKE THAT AND I THINK THEY HAVE TO PAY UP.

I THINK THERE'S ONE INTERESTING STORY WHERE THERE WAS A BOOKSTORE, TWO BOOKSTORES, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU REMEMBER, AND ONE WAS NUMBER TWO BUT -- THERE WERE TWO BUT THERE WERE COMPETITION AND BROWN WAS NOT PAYING ANY TAXES AND THEY WERE.

I THINK IT'S GOTTA BE CHANGED, A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

JIM: BILL?

MAUREEN: 2 -- BILL: TWO QUICK KUDOS, EVERYONE THAT RAN IN THE ELECTION, THEIR TEAMS, IT IS A COURAGEOUS THING TO RUN FOR OFFICE.

I ADMIRE IT GREATLY.

SECONDLY, ANOTHER KUDOS,PBD FAST IS THIS WEEKEND.

THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF PEOPLE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE CHANGES TO THE FESTIVAL, SOME OF IT WITH MERIT AND I THINK SOME OF THE COMPLAINING IS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE HEARD BY THE ADMINISTRATION.

SOME OF THE COMPLAINTS WERE HEARD BY THE ADMINISTRATION AND THIS BEING THE SMILEY AT MINISTRATION AND THEY MADE CHANGES TO THE EVENT, YOU WILL HAVE 10,000 OR MORE PEOPLE WALKING AROUND DOWNTOWN PROVIDENE, IT IS A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR BUSINESSES, GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR ARTISTS TO BE IN THE SPOTLIGHT AND ALSO THE GEOGRAPHY OF DOWNTOWN PROVIDENCE IS ON FULL DISPLAY THERE.

KUDOS FOR THAT FESTIVAL.

JIM: MAYOR, KUDO OR OUTRAGE?

ALLAN: YOU TOOK AWAY MY OUTRAGE, WE DISCUSSED IT WOULD BE THE OFFICER DOLAN SITUATION BUT I WILL SWITCH UP TO A KUDO.

NONE RHODE ISLAND TYPE KUDO BUT ANY IMPACT, WE ARE COMING INTO FOOTBALL SEASON, TONIGHT AND INTO SUNDAY THIS WEEKEND, BUT TOM BRADY, HIM COMING BACK, PATRIOTS RECOGNIZING HIS SIX SUPER BOWLS, THE ACCOMPLISHMENTS HE LEFT NOT ONLY ON THE FIELD BUT OFF OF THE FIELD WITH THE IMPACT HE HAD WITH THE COMMUNITY, I KNOW THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS GREAT TO SEE, ESPECIALLY AS A PATRIOTS FAN.

AND FOR ANYONE THAT DID NOT NOTICE, I AM NOT ONE OF THESE FAIRWEATHER GUYS, I HAD IT WHEN I WAS 10 YEARS OLD AND USE ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, THE JACKET, THOSE TOUGH YEARS, STEVE GROGAN, ALL THOSE YEARS, BUT -- JIM: THE OLD SHAPER STADIUM, RIGHT?

ALLAN: THE OLD SHAPER STADIUM.

JIM: WHAT ARE THE OVER UNDER ON GISELLE?

ALLAN: I DON'T THINK SHE WILL BE BACK.

JIM: WE HAVE ONE LESS THING TO TALK ABOUT IN THE REMAINING MINUTES, THE RHODE ISLAND CONVERSE CORPORATION IS NOW COOLER AND WARMER IS PUTTING OUT , LET'S THROW THIS ON THE SCREEN, THIS IS A STUFFED QUAHOG WITH A LITTLE BIT OF HOT SAUCE AND THIS IS GOING NOT NECESSARILY IN AIRPORTS BUT IN AIR MARKETS IN STRATEGIC PLACES AROUND THE COUNTRY AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE TO SAY ABOUT THIS.

I'M NOT SURE THIS IS GOING TO GET PEOPLE TO COME TO RHODE ISLAND.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

BILL: IT OFFENDS ME AS A VEGAN FIRST OF ALL.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: THAT'S A WHOLE ANOTHER ISSUE.

BILL: IT OFFENDS ME AS A COMEDIAN AS WELL.

[LAUGHTER] WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

WE HAVE RHODE ISLAND SCHOOL OF DESIGN, LITERALLY THE BEST DESIGN SCHOOL, ARGUABLY, IN THE WORLD HERE AND THESE MARKETING CAMPAIGNS CONTINUE TO NOT ONLY DISAPPOINT BUT TO BE DISASTROUS.

WHAT IS THIS?

YOU CAN'T IDENTIFY WITH THIS.

ALLAN: IT'S A LIFESTYLE.

BILL: IT IS AWFUL.

MAUREEN: THE OTHER THING IS, I WAS WRITING ABOUT THIS IN ANOTHER CONTEXT JOE MCNAMARA WAS ON TELEVISION, NATIONAL TELEVISION, OR DENTING THE ELECTORAL VOTES WITH A PLATE OF CALAMARI ON THE BEACH WHERE EVERYBODY ELSE WAS TALKING ABOUT JUSTICE AND TRUTH AND SO FORTH AND SO ON AREA THE WASHINGTON POST SAID THIS IS TYPICAL RHODE ISLAND.

THEY ARE PAROCHIAL AND AN EXAMPLE SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WILL SAY ABOUT THIS.

JIM: WITH ALL THE THINGS THAT WE HAD, AND SOMEONE WROTE AN OP-ED, SAYING COASTLINE, HISTORY, FOOD, AND BEYOND.

>> [INDISCERNIBLE] [LAUGHTER] COME ON.

JIM: BUT WE ALL GET THIS WHEN WE GO TO OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY, RIGHT?

THEY SAY YOU ARE FROM RHODE ISLAND AND WHAT IS THE NEXT LINE?

MAUREEN: HOAGIE.

>> IS A PART OF NEW YORK?

JIM: WHEN I WAS IN SCHOOL IN NORTH CAROLINA THEY SAID YOU ARE FROM LONG ISLAND AND YOU ARE LIKE RHODE ISLAND AND THEY WOULD LIKE YOU GET OUT BY BOAT?

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY'RE SPENDING ON THIS BUT IF YOU COULD DO THE AD CAMPAIGN, WHAT WOULD YOU FOCUS ON?

BILL: BOTTOM LINE IS SELLING THE OCEAN STATE BUT I'M NOT SURE THIS IS THE WAY TO BE DOING IT.

I GET IT, YOU ARE TRYING TO CELEBRATE THE FOOD SCENE WE HAVE BUT THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A LOT OF -- MAUREEN: BUT THIS IS NOT THE FOOD SCENE WE HAVE, IT IS MUCH BETTER.

JIM: I THINK IF YOU HAVE TO ASK POINT TO SOMEBODY WHAT A QUAHOG, YOU HAVE THREE WAYS TO PRONOUNCE OR, IF YOU HAVE TO EXPLAIN IT, YOU ARE IN THE HOLE TO BEGIN WITH.

BILL: JUST DO SOMETHING SIMPLE, REFRESHING.

AND SHOW PICTURES OF THE BEACH, THE ARTS.

JIM: DEAR MEMBER THE FUND SIZE AD?

IT WAS 10 TO 20 SECONDS AND IT WOULD ZOOM OUT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS GOOD AND WHAT HIT-OR-MISS TWICE WITH THE COMMERCE CORPORATION SO -- >> IN THEIR DEFENSE, I'M GLAD THEY ARE TRYING.

MAUREEN: BUT THEY HAVE TO DO BETTER.

JIM: HOPEFULLY THEY ARE WATCHING IT.

THAT'S ALL THE TIME WE HAVE, BILL, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAUREEN, AND THE PRODIGAL PANELIST RETURNS, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MR. FONG.

IF YOU DON'T GET SLIGHTLY FRIDAY OR 7:00 AT NOON, WE HAVE OUR WEBSITE, FACEBOOK PAGE, AND PODCAST.

WHEREVER YOU GO, TAKE US ALONG WITH YOU.

NEXT WEEK, WE WILL HAVE THE POLITICAL NEWS AND FULL ANALYSIS AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PREFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] 0 A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I'M JOHN HAZENWHITE JR.. ALLIED LAKES PERMIT PROVIDES INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.