JIM: THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," THE VOLUME IS TURNED UP SIGNIFICANTLY IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

A MAJOR ENDORSEMENT IN THE PROVIDENCE MAYOR'S RACE INTO ME TO OF THIS YEAR'S RHODE ISLAND PREVIOUS SCHOLARSHIP.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR.. FOR SEVERAL YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT INTO ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I MADE PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US THIS WEEK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST LISA PELOSI.

PABLO RODRIGUEZ, RETIRED PROFESSOR AT BROWN UNIVERSITY.

AND STEVE FRIAS, RHODE ISLAND REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN.

WELCOME TO "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

IT WAS INEVITABLE NEGATIVE ADS WOULD HIT ROAD -- HIT AIRWAYS THIS WEEK.

NELLIE GORBEA UNVEILED ONE GOING AFTER WERNER MCKEE.

SHE WAS SIDETRACKED BY SEVERAL ERRORS IN THE AD ITSELF, SOMETHING CAMPAIGNS HOPE TO AVOID THIS LATE IN THE CAMPAIGN.

PABLO, LET ME BEGIN.

YOU ARE NOT PART OF THE CAMPAIGN BUT YOU ARE CLOSE TO IT.

I KNOW SHE TRY TO DO DAMAGE CONTROL BUT IT STINGS.

PABLO: NO DOUBT.

THIS IS AN UNFORCED ERROR AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN OUT-OF-STATE CONSULTANTS MAKE OUT-OF-STATE ERRORS.

I THINK THE IMPORTANT PART OF THE MESSAGE IS THE FACT THAT THERE IS AN INVESTIGATION ABOUT CORRUPTION IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

THAT GETS LOST IN THE REPORTING.

THE SEXY PART OF THE COVER TENDS TO BE THE ONE THAT CARRIES THE DAY.

JIM: SHE IS NOT AND -- SHE IS NET AND -- NET AND ANNETTE -- NECK AND NECK.

PABLO: NO DOUBT, THIS IS THE END WHEN EVERYONE WILL TRY TO CAPTURE THE 20% OF THE ELECTORATE.

MOST PEOPLE ALREADY DECIDED ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE BECAUSE OF NEGATIVE ADS.

THAT'S 20% WILL BE DETERMINED WHEN NO ONE HAS REACHED 20% IN THE RACE THUS FAR.

LISA: LISTENING TO THE W PRR RADIO, WE WERE WAITING ALL SUMMER FOR THE CANDIDATES TO DISTINGUISH THEMSELVES.

I AM LISTING TO THE RADIO GOING BACK AND FORTH AND I'M AM NELLY AND PICTURING HER AS A ROLLER DERBY WOMAN.

SHE WAS THROWING AN ELBOW HERE -- AN ALTHOUGH HERE TO MCKEE AND ANNIE ELBOW HERE TO ALANNA.

GIVE HER SOME PUBLICITY TO BREAK OUT OF THE PACK.

WHAT WAS THE BIG ISSUE HERE?

SHE QUICKLY HAD A BANNER NOT ALIGNED WITH THE MESSAGE OF THE COMMERCIAL.

IT IS STILL A BAD COMMERCIAL FOR MCKEE TO HAVE TO RESPOND TO.

PABLO: IT IS LIKE HAVING A REPUBLICAN PRIMARY ENERGY USING ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ IN YOUR COMMERCIALS.

STEVE: I HAVE BEEN WAITING ALL SUMMER FOR WHEN DEMOCRATS START TAKING OFF THE GLOVES.

I WAS LIKE, THE GOVERNMENT IS UNDER AN VISTA GISH AND IS UNDER AN INVESTIGATION -- IS UNDER AN INVESTIGATION.

WE CAN TALK ABOUT HOW NELLIE GORBEA'S CAMPAIGN MESSED UP AND WAS SLOPPY, BUT THE AVERAGE VOTER IS GOING TO GET FBI INVESTIGATION GOV.

MCKEE.

THE FACT THAT SHE WAS QUOTING MIKE STENHOUSE, A PROMINENT CONSERVATIVE, IS PART OF THE STORY GOV.

MCKEE CAN ATTACK BACK.

PEOPLE WILL FEET -- WILL BE FORGETTING ABOUT THAT.

JIM: THE GOVERNOR IS OUT THERE EVERY DAY, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR FOR YEARS.

DOES HE HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THESE POLL NUMBERS OR IS HE IN GOOD SHAPE EVEN THOUGH HE -- BECAUSE HE IS THE PERCEIVED INCUMBENT?

STEVE: WHEN YOU ARE THE CROISSANT INCUMBENT AND YOU CANNOT EVEN GET TO A THIRD, THAT IS CONCERNING.

I WOULD BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY THERE ARE CERTAIN CONSTITUENCIES.

HE HAS GOT A LOVELY BAR -- ALL OF LABOR.

HE GAVE PEOPLE ALL THESE BONUSES AND STUFF.

HE GOT TO THE VOTE.

HE RAN THE AD WITH HIS MOTHER.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A GREAT AT.

WHO VOTES IN PRIMARIES?

THE ELDERLY.

THAT WAS VERY APPEALING.

HE IS DOING WHAT HE NEEDS TO TO GET PRIMARY VOTERS.

JIM: HE POKED FUN AT HIMSELF WITH POLICY MIXED IN WITH HIS MOTHER WHICH I THOUGHT WAS GOOD.

LISA: THE POWER OF THE INCUMBENCY HAS BEEN COMING THROUGH SINCE THE END OF THE SESSION, HE HAS BEEN ON THE NEWS THAT HE IS GIVING MONEY AWAY OR DOING A CEREMONIAL SIGNING.

JIM: SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED THREE MONTHS AGO.

LISA: RIGHT.

THE LATEST POLL WAS TAKEN IN AUGUST AND I LOOK AT IT A DIFFERENT WAY.

ALMOST THREE OUT OF FOUR VOTERS POLLED SAID THEY DID NOT WANT HIM.

I THINK THAT HAS TO BE TROUBLING FOR HIM GOING INTO THE NEXT FEW WEEKS.

JIM: YOU GOT BLOWBACK ALSO.

THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS I WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

TWEETING OUT THAT FOLKS SHOULD CONSIDER FOLDING HER CARD.

TELL ME THE THINKING BEHIND THAT.

STEVE: I SENT IT WEEK -- PABLO: I SENT A TWEET SAYING AFTER SPENDING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO GET NAME RECOGNITION AND ONLY GETTING 14%, SOMETHING IS WRONG.

YOU ARE NOT MAKING PROGRESS.

THAT BECAME THE CALL FOR HELENA FOLKS TO ABANDON THE CAMPAIGN.

IT WAS JUST A TWEET.

JIM: THE OTHER ISSUE WAS ABOUT THE RED BOX.

TALK ABOUT WHAT THAT IS FOR PEOPLE IF THEY ARE NOT AWARE WHAT THAT MEANS.

STEVE: A CAMPAIGN CAN SPEND ITS OWN MONEY IT RAISES BUDGET THERE ARE INDEPENDENT GROUPS THAT CAN SPEND ON -- UNLIMITED AMOUNTS.

A GROUP CANNOT COORDINATE WITH THE CAMPAIGN.

JIM: EVEN THOUGH IT GOES ON MORE THAN WE WOULD THINK.

STEVE: IT IS LIKE ANYTHING THAT GOES ON.

YOU KNOW THINGS ARE GOING ON BUT YOU CANNOT PROVE IT.

THE CANDIDATE IS PUTTING SOMETHING ON THEIR WEBSITE AND SAYING THIS IS WHAT I AM ABOUT, HERE IS SOME VIDEO OF ME IN THE HOPE THAT AN INDEPEDENT GROUP WILL SPEND MONEY ON ITS.

IN HER SITUATION, SHE WENT BEYOND THAT.

SHE SAID THE VOTERS IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE NEED TO SEE THESE ADS ABOUT MY POSITION ON ABORTION ON TV.

YOU ARE SOLICITING, YOU ARE TRYING TO COORDINATE WITH AN INDEPENDENT GROUP.

THAT IS WHERE YOU GET A PROBLEM.

SHE GOT BLOWBACK FROM A LOT OF GROUPS AND IT HURT HER BECAUSE SHE HAS PUSHED THIS IMAGE OF IME FAIR ELECTIONS PERSON.

YOU ARE PLAYING GAMES WITH CAMPAIGN-FINANCE LAWS, IT HURTS YOUR IMAGE.

PABLO: TO COORDINATE WITH SUPER PAC'S, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SUPER PAC'S.

THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO HAVE THEM ARE THE GOVERNOR AND HELENA FOULKES.

THE ELECTION COMMISSION HAS LOOKED AT THIS AND RULED THAT PUBLICLY AVAILABLE INTERNET RESOURCES ARE NOT COORDINATION.

IF YOU ARE PUTTING SOMETHING ON YOUR WEBSITE, REGARDS OF WHAT YOU SAID -- PETE BUTTIGIEG GOT IN TROUBLE AND GOT CLEARED BY THE FEDERAL ELECTIONS COMMISSION.

HIS CALL WAS DIRECT.

THIS IS WHAT I WANT PEOPLE TO DO FOR ME.

BOTH PARTIES DO IT IN THE HOUSE.

BOTH PARTIES HAVE WEBSITES DEDICATED TO SHARING THESE KINDS OF INFORMATION WITH THE SUPER PAC'S.

JIM: DOES THAT HURT HER OR IS IT INSIDE A BASEBALL?

LISA: AT THIS PONT IT'S MY SPIRIT OCCUR BUT IT -- AND -- AT THIS POINT I THINK IT HURT HER.

BUT CAN SHE EMERGE AND SAY I AM THE ADULT HERE, I AM THE ONE THAT CAN PROVIDE LEADERSHIP GOING FORWARD?

NEXT WEEK IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST TELEVISED DEBATE ON THE GOVERNOR'S SIDE.

THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF FORMS PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO ATTEND BUT THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PUBLICLY TELEVISED.

I WILL BE LOOKING FOR IN THE FIRST 20 MINUTES, WILL HELENA FOULKES DO SOMETHING THAT WILL SET HER ASIDE FROM THE GROUP.

IS SHE GOING TO BE THE HORSE THAT COMES ALONG THE SIDE AND WINS?

PABLO: SHE HAS DONE THAT BY SAYING I'M NOT A POLITICIAN.

JIM: I LOVE THAT -- I ALWAYS FIND THAT HILARIOUS.

IF YOU ARE RUNNING FOR OFFICE, YOU ARE A POLITICIAN.

STEVE: HELENA HAS A LOT OF POTENTIAL.

SEE -- SHE HAS DIVORCED -- SHE HAS THE RESOURCES, SHE HAS THE BACKGROUND.

JIM: SHE HAS TWO WEEKS.

STEVE: THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN SAYING.

MEMORABLE -- OF AN AD IS TO BEO- MEMORABLE.

SHE HAS PUT OUT THESE ADS THAT ARE NOT MEMORABLE.

SHE SHOULD BE TRYING TO CONTRAST HERSELF WITH GOV.

MCKEE AND NELLIE GORBEA AND PUSH YOURSELF IN THE FOREFRONT.

SHE COULD DO IT BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING AT EACH OTHER.

IF A HITS B AND B HITS A, WHO WINS?

C. [LAUGHTER] JIM: LET'S GO TO THE PROVIDENCE MAYOR RACE.

BRETT SMILEY IS DOING A LOT OF WALKING.

HAVE YOU SEEN THE AD?

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE HE IS WALKING WITH?

HE IS GETTING A LOT OF STEPS.

ANGEL HARRIS AND JORGE ELORZA COME OUT AND ENDORSE CUERVO.

WERE YOU SURPRISED?

PABLO: I WAS VERY SURPRISED.

I DID NOT HEAR ABOUT IT UNTIL IT HAPPENED.

THIS IS PROVIDENCE.

IF THE LATINO VOTE COMES OUT, WHOMEVER THEY CHOOSE IS GOING TO BE THE CANDIDATE FOR THE DEMOCRAT.

JIM: I AM NOT WILD ABOUT WHAT LUIS HAS DONE.

IN GENERAL, DOES THAT CARRY WEIGHT IN PROVIDENCE?

PABLO: IN PROVIDENCE IT DOES BECAUSE IT PROVIDES YOU WITH WORKERS, PEOPLE WHO WILL GO ON THE STREET AND GET THE WORD OUT.

BOTH ANGEL AND ELORZA HAVE A DEDICATED GROUP OF INFRASTRUCTURE THAT IS GOING TO HELP.

LISA: TO SEE THAT ENDORSEMENT HAPPENED, IF YOU WATCH THE CHANNEL 12 DEBATE OF THE CANDIDATES, THEY ASKED EACH OF THEM WHO IS YOUR ROLE MODEL FOR WHO IS THE MAYOR YOU LOOK MOST TO AND CUERVO WHO WORKED FOR BOTH DID NOT SAY EITHER.

A COUPLE OF DAYS LATER FOR HIM TO GET THE ENDORSEMENT I WAS LIKE, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE?

I THINK RIGHT NOW WITH ELORZA, HE ENDORSED HELENA FOULKES, TOO.

REALLY ACTIVELY, THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN PROVIDENCE.

JIM: BRETT SMILEY CUT THE DEAL WITH ELORZA TO DROP OUT SO THEY COULD BEAT NANCY AND WORKED FOR ELORZA.

ELORZA ENDORSES CUERVO, IT IS ODD.

STEVE: IF YOU WORK FOR SOMEBODY AS THEIR CHIEF OF STAFF AND THEY CANNOT ENDORSE YOU, IT IS LIKE YOUR BEST FRIEND WON'T VOTE FOR YOU.

PABLO: OR SHOW UP TO YOUR WEDDING.

[LAUGHTER] STEVE: IT IS KIND OF ODD.

I DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THESE WAY IN IN THE RACE BUT THAT WAS NOT A GOOD THING.

JIM: WHAT ROLE DO ENDORSEMENTS PLAY.

ICL OF THIS SPOKESMAN.

SO-AND-SO GETS ENDORSED BY THIS.

GETTING ENDORSED BY CITY COUNCIL PEOPLE IN BOSTON WHICH IS SUCH A DISCONNECT.

IN A CLEARLY THE LABOR UNIONS, THAT IS A BIG DEAL.

THE REST OF THIS, WHAT DO ENDORSEMENTS PLAY?

LISA: NORMALLY IT IS JUST A HEADLINE.

FOR FIVE SECONDS OR TWO MINUTES YOU GET A HEADLINE AND MOVE ON.

IF IT IS WITH THE UNIONS, IF IT IS GETTING OUT OF THE BOAT, THAT WILL BE MOST IMPORTANT.

WHO WILL BE THE ONE WHO GETS THE VOTE OUT?

IF THE UNION FOLKS ARE TURNING TO REPRESENTATIVES, MAKE SURE YOU GET THE PEOPLE OUT FOR THE PEOPLE WE ENDORSED, THAT WILL MAKE IT BIG DIFFERENCE.

PABLO: IT DOES.

IT IS A LOW TURNOUT ELECTION.

MIDTERMS ARE TYPICALLY LOW TURNOUT.

PRIMARIES ARE EVEN WORSE.

ANYONE WHO CAN GET THE VOTE OUT IS GOING TO GET THE NOMINATION.

JIM: THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S RACE HAS BEEN INTERESTING.

ONE PERSON DECIDED SHE IS TOO BUSY TO GO TO A DEBATE.

AT ONE POINT -- AT WHAT POINT DOES THAT BECOME DAN MCKEE'S PROBLEM?

SCHAPIRO HAS BEEN AGGRESSIVE IN HER ADS.

AND IS NOT LIKE SABRINA METHODS IS UP BY 15 POINTS.

YOU WONDER IF SHE WILL HAVE REGRET THAT SHE DID NOT GET OUT IN THOSE DEBATES.

LISA: SHE HAS NOT RUN STATEWIDE.

SHE IS ONLY KNOWN IN PROVIDENCE.

GETTING PEOPLE TO KNOW HER OUTSIDE PROVIDENCE HAS BEEN CHALLENGING.

FOR PEOPLE WHO LOOK TO DEBATE TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY ARE IN SUPPORTING PEOPLE, HER DECIDING TO NOT TO DO ANYMORE DEBATES -- DEB HAS A GREAT COMMERCIAL WITH THEM SIDE-BY-SIDE AND SHE IS JIM: THERE IS A LOT OF BUZZ, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF HER NOT SHOWING UP?

STEVE: I THINK IT DOES HURT HER.

IF YOU DON'T SHOW UP TO DEBATE, YOU GENERALLY DON'T HAVE A STRONG FAN BASE.

I THINK IT CAN HURT YOU.

SHE IS A BIG UNKNOWN.

THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, I DON'T PAY TOO MUCH ATTENTION.

I THINK THEY SHOULD GET RID OF IT.

THE ONLY TIME I FOCUSED ON IT WAS WHEN DASH WAS RUNNING BECAUSE HE WANTED TO GET RID OF IT.

PABLO: TOO MANY PEOPLE AROUND DECIDED.

THE MORE YOU ABLE TO CONTRAST YOURSELF WITH THE CANDIDATES, THE BETTER YOU WILL BE.

THE GREATEST EXAMPLE WAS WHEN THE GOVERNOR GOT COVID.

THIS LAST PHOTO -- THIS LAST FORUM WITH CHILDREN'S -- JIM: HE HAS BEEN OFF THE TRAIL FOR A WEEK.

PABLO: HE WAS OFF THE TRAIL AND EVERYBODY WAS -- ON HIM.

THE SAME THING IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH SABRINA.

JIM: HE IS THE EMPTY CHAIR.

PABLO: LET'S JUST PYLON.

AND SHE IS THE FRONT RUNNER.

LISA: WE ARE NOT SEEING COMMERCIALS OF THEM TOGETHER THE WAY WE ARE SEEING MATT BROWN AND CINDY MENDEZ.

WE ARE KIND OF TOGETHER BUT NOT REALLY TOGETHER.

I DON'T GET MAILINGS FROM THE DEMOCRATS SO I DON'T KNOW IF MICKEY IS PUTTING ANYTHING OUT WITH SABINA IN IT.

JIM: I WILL MAKE SURE TO GET TO EMAIL.

WE WILL COME STEVE, THIS IS HIS FIRST TIME ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

HE MANAGED TO FIND THE STUDIO.

STEVE: I HOPE I PASS THE ADDITION.

JIM: HE IS NOT SCARED OF THE MICROPHONE.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME WE HAD YOU ON SINCE THE TIDEWATER LANDING.

FASCINATING ALL AROUND.

THE GOVERNOR HAS TO BECAUSE THEY GO TO SO THERE ARE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS -- HAS TO CAST THE VOTE SO THERE ARE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS.

WHAT ARE WE MISSING HERE?

STEVE: THIS SOCCER DEAL IS IDIOTIC.

THE NUMBERS DON'T EVEN COME CLOSE.

YOU SAY, WHY ARE WE DOING THIS?

YOU PUT SOME NUMBERS TOGETHER, LIKE $500,000 FROM THE LABORERS UNION GOING TOWARDS GOV.

MCKEE.

ENDORSEMENTS FROM UNIONS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

I THINK THEY ARE FOCUSING NOT ON IF THIS MAKES ECONOMIC STATE BUT IF IT MAKES POLITICAL SENSE FOR GOV.

MCKEE BEFORE THE PRIMARY.

JIM: YOU WONDER IF THAT COULD HAVE/\.

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE DEAL.

WHY DID HE VOTE FOR THIS?

PABLO: I HAVE A HUGE CONFLICT BECAUSE I OWN A BUILDING NEXT TO THE PROPERTY WHERE THE HOTEL IS GOING TO BE.

JIM: DOES THAT HELP YOU OR HURT YOU?

PABLO: IF THE HOTEL IS BUILT, IT WILL HELP ME.

IF IT DOESN'T -- [LAUGHTER] JIM: BUT THE HOTEL AND HOUSING IS DOWN IN LINE.

PABLO: BY THEN I WILL PROBABLY BE RETIRED TO A NURSING HOME.

THE PROBLEM HERE IS THE TRANSPARENCY THAT SHOULD ACCOMPANY THESE KINDS OF HUGE DEALS DID NOT HAPPEN.

IT IS COMING OUT IN TRIPS.

IN D DESK -- IN DRIPS.

THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMERCE BOARD ARE ALSO TALKING AND SAYING THIS WAS TERRIBLE.

WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN THOSE PROJECTIONS RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

IF IT IS A GOOD THING FOR TARGET -- IF IT IS A GOOD THING, SAY I AM GOING TO GO FOR IT BECAUSE POTTER GET NEEDED.

IF YOU LET DRIPS COME OUT THAT THE DEAL DID NOT WORK, IT IS TERRIBLE.

LISA: IT WASPURELY POLITICAL.

IT REMINDED ME OF HOW MUCH GOV.

MCKEE IS A MAYOR.

HE WANTED TO TAKE CARE OF HIS FELLOW MAYOR.

HE WAS LOOKING AT THE VOTER TURNOUT.

IT IS A SOCCER STADIUM.

YOU PAY 17 HOME GAMES.

JIM: WE HAVE TO AVERAGE 4500 PEOPLE.

LISA: MAYBE WHEN THE PROJECT FIRST STARTED IT MADE SENSE, BUT THE SUPPLY CHAIN AND OTHER ISSUES THAT HAVE BOOSTED THE PRICE OF AND PUBLIC INVESTMENT, I THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE SAID THIS DOES NOT WORK.

FOR HIM TO CAST THAT DEVOTE -- AND THAT WAS QUESTIONABLE, HOW HE NEEDED TO BE THERE TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.

HE WANTED TO SAY I AM THE ONE WHO GOT THIS OVER THE FINISH LINE SO SUPPORTS ME.

JIM: A COUPLE OF NATIONAL ISSUES BEFORE THE HOMESTRETCH.

THE BIG NEWS WAS THE PRESIDENT.

IT HAD BEEN RUMORED ABOUT GETTING RID OF UP TO $10,000 IN STUDENT LOAN DEBT.

THIS SEEMS TO BE BLACK OR WHITE.

I DON'T SEE MIDDLE GROUND ON THIS.

YOUR THOUGHTS ON THIS?

PABLO: HIGHER EDUCATION IS THE WORST DEAL FOR THIS COUNTRY IN TERMS OF THE EXPENSE OF GOING TO COLLEGE AND MEDICAL SCHOOL.

JIM: BUT THE PRICES WENT UP BECAUSE THE MONEY WAS AVAILABLE.

PABLO: EXACTLY.

THE CRISIS EXISTS FOR THOSE PEOPLE, 43 MILLION PEOPLE WILL BENEFIT FROM THIS.

20 MILLION WILL HAVE THEIR DEBT COMPLETELY FORGIVEN.

90% OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE DEBT EARNED LESS THAN $75,000 A YEAR.

THIS IS A TARGETED RELIEF FOR MIDDLE-CLASS.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE ARE NOT DOING ANYTHING FOR THE HIGH COST OF COLLEGE EDUCATION.

THAT IS WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

PEOPLE NEED TO TAKE ON THIS DEBT OTHERWISE THEY CANNOT GRADUATE.

JIM: YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO SAY I WORKED MY WAY THROUGH, I MADE SACRIFICES TO STAY OUT OF DEBT.

WHAT IS GOING ON THERE?

STEVE: THE PROBLEM IS THE UNFAIRNESS OF IT.

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT GO TO COLLEGE, THEY HAVE OTHER CAREERS AND THEY WILL BE SUBSIDIZING THOSE WHO TOOK ON COLLEGE DEBT.

MY PARENTS WERE IMMIGRANTS FROM PORTUGAL, THEY WORKED HARD, SAVED TO HELP ME GO TO COLLEGE.

I CAN TELL MY DAD THAT WAS A MISTAKE, I SHOULD HAVE JUST TAKEN ON LOANS AND WAIT FOR JOE BIDEN TO COME ALONG AND MAKE THEM GO AWAY.

IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK IN THE END.

THE MORE MONEY YOU PUT INTO SOMETHING THE GOVERNMENT DOES, IT DOES NOT MAKE IT MORE AFFORDABLE.

LISA: I WORK IN HIGHER ED, I SEE THE POWER OF HIGHER EDUCATION FOR THE STUDENTS.

I AM AGAINST THIS.

NOT JUST FOR THE FAIRNESS ISSUE.

IF YOU TOOK SOMETHING OUT BEFORE JULY 1.

DOES EVERYBODY FROM JULY 1 GOING BACK HOW FAR?

WE DON'T KNOW THE REGULATIONS.

IF YOU ARE MAKING 125,000 DOLLARS AND THAT IS THE CEILING, YOU SHOULD AFFORD YOUR STUDENT DEBT.

YOUR EDUCATION GO TO THAT JOB THAT IS PAYING $125,000.

SO THERE IS GOOD DEBT AND BAD DEBT.

GOOD DEBT IS CHOOSING EDUCATION BUT MAKING THE RIGHT DECISION FOR THE COLLEGE YOU CAN AFFORD.

HERE WE GO BAILING OUT PEOPLE WHO CHOSE COLLEGES THAT WERE BEYOND WHAT THEY COULD AFFORD.

NOW WE ARE GOING TO BE BAILING THEM OUT.

PABLO: LESS THAN 1% TO GO TO IVY LEAGUE SCHOOLS SO THIS IS NOT ABOUT VERY EXPENSIVE SCHOOLS.

THESE ARE REGULAR STATE SCHOOLS.

LIKE I SAID BFORE, 90% OF THE BENEFICIARIES MAKE LESS THAN $75,000 A YEAR.

JIM: IF YOU ARE $50,000 IN THE HOLE, 10 HELPS BUT IT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

PABLO: THE AVERAGE FOR THE COUNTRY IS $40,000 FOR JUST COLLEGE.

IF YOU ARE A DOCTOR, IT IS $200,000 PLUS ANOTHER $100,000 FOR UNDERGRAD.

JIM: DOES THIS CATCH THE MILLENNIAL AND GEN Z ATTENTION?

STEVE: THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT.

JOE BIDEN IS TRYING TO INCREASE DEMOCRATIC TURNOUT AMONG YOUNGER VOTERS.

IT MAY, BUT I DON'T THINK IT WILL WORK.

>> NOW WE ARE SHARING A SHIFT -- JIM: NOW WE ARE HEARING YOU SHIFT, THE SENATE HAD PROBLEMATIC CANDIDATES.

WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE MIDTERMS IN THE CASE OF THE REPUBLICANS COMING AT FLIP.

STEVE: WE ARE GOING TO WIN THE HOUSE.

JIM: INSIGHTFUL COMMENTARY FROM STEVE.

STEVE: WHEN YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WITH A 40% APPROVAL RATING, THE INCUMBENT WILL DO SEATS.

WE ONLY NEED HALF A DOZEN HOUSE.

THE SENATE IS A PROBLEM.

THAT IS THE CANDIDATE ISSUE.

I WANT TO BE CAREFUL TALKING ABOUT PARTICULAR PEOPLE, BUT YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH SOME OF THESE CANDIDATES.

PABLO: MITCH MCCONNELL IS WITH YOU.

MITCH MCCONNELL SAID IT.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: YOU LOOK AT PENNSYLVANIA WHICH IS PAT TOOMEY AND THEN YOU HAVE BETTER MEN AT DR. OZ.

I CANNOT IMAGINE DR. OZ WINNING THAT.

LISA: THE QUESTION YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR ARE PEOPLE SUPPORTING THE DIRECTION THE COUNTRY IS GOING OR NOT.

WHEN WE HAVE 75% SAYING IT IS NOT GOING IN THE DIRECTION THEY WANT, PEOPLE WANT TO CHANGE.

THEY WILL KICK OUT OF THE INCUMBENT AND CHOOSE THE CHALLENGER.

JIM: FINAL THOUGHTS ON THAT?

PABLO: GIVE ME A BREAK.

JIM: POTENTIALLY TOMMY TUBERVILLE, WHAT A TEAM THAT WOULD BE.

PABLO: THERE IS ONE ISSUE AND THAT IS THE TRUMP ISSUE.

THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT IS SUCKING THE AIR OUT OF THE ROOM, SUCKING FUNDS OUT OF CAMPAIGNS AND THE ATTENTION OF THE PRESS.

THAT COULD HURT EVEN THE HOUSE.

JIM: STEVE, GREAT TO HAVE YOU.

WE HOPE TO HAVE YOU BACK.

PABLO AND LISA, GREAT TO SEE YOU.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL SEGMENT, J SHALL IS THE WINNER OF THE RHODE ISLAND PREVIOUS SCHOLARSHIP AWARDED TO A HIGH SCHOOL OR COLLEGE STUDENT PURSUING A CAREER IN BROADCASTING, COMMUNICATIONS, OR JOURNALISM.

THE FOR THE GRADUATE IS A GRADUATE OF THE MED SCHOOL IN PROVIDENCE AND BEGINS FRESHMAN YEAR AT BENTLEY.

I HAD A CHANCE TO DO WITH HER.

WELCOME BACK, I AM PLEASED TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW WITH US READ YOU HAVE DONE MORE IN YOUR 18 YEARS THAT I HAVE DONE MY ENTIRE CAREER.

YOU ARE INTERESTED IN GOING INTO JOURNALISM.

BENTLEY UNIVERSITY, TELL ME WHY.

>> I AM A DOUBLE MAJOR, MAJORING IN DIVERSITY, EQUITY AND INCLUSION AND A JOURNALISM MAJOR.

I HAVE A BACKGROUND IN POLITICS UT I NOW COVER WRESTLING OF ALL THINGS.

I DO A LOT OF THINGS BUT I'M EXCITED TO EXPLORE THOSE.

JIM: I WAS GLAD TO HAVE HER ON AND I AM A BIG WRESTLING FAN.

YOU SAID EARLY ON YOU ARE INTERESTED IN WRESTLING AND THEN YOU FELL AWAY BECAUSE IT WAS NOT COOL.

NOW YOU ARE FULL INTO IT.

IS THIS YOU HAVE A WHOLE COVERAGE PODCAST, YOU ARE INTO IT.

>> I COVER W W E, A W IMPACT, ALL OF THE WRESTLING COMPANIES.

STUFF IN JAPAN, UNCOVER PODCASTS, NEWS ARTICLES, EXCLUSIVE NEWS, ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

I MADE IT A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT BEING BLACK IN PRO WRESTLING.

JIM: YOU ARE KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY?

>> YET.

JIM: IF YOU TRY TO CONTACT SOMEBODY, THEY KNOW WHO YOU ARE?

>> YEAH.

I MET WITH 20 CON T --ONY CON.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU LIKE ABOUT WRESTLING?

>> I LIKE THE ANALYSIS.

I WOULD TRY TO ANALYZE WHAT MOVE IS COMING NEXT, HOW DO THEY CREATED THEIR CHARACTER AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

I PUT MYSELF IN THEIR SHOES.

JIM: LET'S GO BACK TO THE PROTESTS IN PROVIDENCE, YOU WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT.

YOU GOT IN THE MIDDLE WORKING AS REPORTING AND BEING ON THE FRONT LINES.

TELL ME HOW THAT AFFECTED YOU.

>> I HAD BEEN A YOUTH ORGANIZER SINCE FRESHMAN YEAR.

ONCE I SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING WITH GEORGE FLOYD, I WAS LIKE THIS IS MY OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE MY POWER BACK AND PUT MYSELF IN THE FOREFRONT.

I KNEW I WAS A LEADER SO WHEN IT CAME TO ORGANIZING PROTESTS I WAS THE MOST SCARED ABOUT THAT BUT ONCE I CREATED CONNECTIONS WITH POLITICIANS, I FELT SUPPORTED AND I WAS ABLE TO HOLD MAJOR EVENTS THAT DID END UP HELPING TO MAKE POLICY CHANGE.

JIM: YOU ALSO FORMED SOME ORGANIZATIONS?

>> I FORMED ENDO POSITION CALLED GEN Z WANTS TO LIVE.

WE RAISED $30,000 IN OUR FIRST YEAR.

JIM: HOW DID YOU DO THAT?

>> A LOT OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS.

I LIKE TO THINK I AM MOTIVATED AND MUST STOP UNTIL I GET IT.

JIM: COLLEGE IS SUCH A TIME FOR -- PEOPLE THINK THEY WILL DO ONE THING AND THEN THEY GO OFF.

DO YOU HAVE WHAT YOU WANT TO DO AND BEYOND?

>> MY DREAM CAREER IS I WANT TO CREATE A POSITION IN WWE AND BE THEIR DIVERSITY AND INCLUSION CONSULTANT.

I WANT TO MAKE SURE THE WRESTLERS ARE BEING SUPPORTED, ALL OF THE STAFF, MAKE SURE THEIR CHARACTERS ON SCREEN THEY REFLECTED OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY.

JIM: DO THEY HAVE THAT NOW?

>> KNOW, IT IS SOMETHING I WOULD HAVE TO MAKE.

BUT I THINK I AM FOLLOWING THAT PATH.

JIM: I HAVE A FEELING WE WILL BE HEARING A LOT ABOUT YOU IN THE FUTURE.

THANK YOU FOR COMING, CONGRATULATIONS AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING HOW THINGS ARE GOING.

FOLKS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

PLEASE COME BACK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

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