>> EIGHT REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT GATHER FOR THIS -- FOR THE FIRST TIME IN A VULNERABLE DEBATE IN MILWAUKEE.

>> I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: ON THE PANEL, ATTORNEY AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE NICK GORHAM, BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AMANDA MILKOVITS, AND POLITICAL STRATEGIST ROB HOROWITZ.

WELCOME INTO THIS WEEK'’S LIVELY.

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

IT WAS INEVITABLE THAT THE SEATING ONE RACE WOULD TAKE ON A NEGATIVE TURN.

WE HAVE A LOT OF GROUND TO COVER.

SABINA MATOS CALLED ON OTHER CANDIDATES TO DROP OUT OF THE RACE AND SUPPORT HER AGAINST AARON RITTENBERG.

GABE ALMOST SAYS NOT SO FAST.

ROB, YOU HAVE LOOKED AT A LOT OF POLLS OVER THE YEARS.

MAYBE THE FIRST RED FLAG IS INTERNAL POLL, BUT TIMING IS GOOD, BUT WE SHOULD TAKE THIS WITH SOME CAUTION.

ROB: YOU HAVE TO TAKE ALL PRIMARY POLLING WITH CAUTION SIMPLY BECAUSE IN GENERAL ELECTIONS THERE'’S A FIXED NUMBER OF SWING VOTERS SO POLLS ARE WITHIN CERTAIN LIMITS AND USUALLY F FAIRLY ACCURATE.

IN PRIMARIES, NUMBERS MOVE UP AND DOWN AND PEOPLE CHANGE THEIR MIND A LOT.

IN TERMS OF THE METHODOLOGY, YOU COMBINE ROBOCALLS AND TEXT MESSAGES, ALTHOUGH THAT IS USED MORE AND MORE BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'’T PICK UP THE PHONE AS MUCH, YOU CAN QUESTION THE METHODOLOGY.

SMART OF AMO TO RELEASE IT.

ONE THING WE CAN POBABLY CONCLUDE IS AARON IS DOING WELL.

AMANDA: I WOULD AGREE AND I THINK THE RELEASE OF THE INTERNAL POLL SHOWED WHY SABINA MATOS WAS ATTACKING AMO DURING THE DEBATE.

SHE WENT OFF ON HIM AS BEING A LOBBYIST FOR HOME DEPOT AND -- SHE SEEMED TO SAY WHY NOT?

OUR INTERNAL POLLS WORTH ANYTHING?

I DON'’T KNOW.

IS THE GENERAL PUBLIC PAYING ATTENTION TO IT, NOT REALLY.

I THINK AARON IS IN THE LEAD.

JIM: LET THE RECORD SHOW THAT NICK CALLED GABE AMO AND SAID TO LOOK OUT FOR HIM LAST TIME HE WAS ON.

NICK: I DID.

I ALSO THOUGHT CARLSEN WOULD DO WELL.

HE WAS DOING OK UNTIL VERY RECENTLY.

AS FOR GABE AMO, I STILL THINK -- WELL I KNOW THAT POLLS ARE POLLS, BUT I THINK THERE'’S PROBABLY A CEBALLOS IS WHERE YOU CAN GET YOUR POLL OUT THERE BEFORE THE PRIMARY.

PEOPLE LIKE TO GO WITH WINNERS AND SEE SOMEBODY WHO THEY APPRECIATE IF THEY ARE GOING TO SUPPORT HIM.

NOW THEY REALLY WELL AND MAKE SURE THEY VOTE SO I THINK IT WAS A SMART MOVE ON HIS PART TO PUBLISH HIS INTERNAL POLL, SUCH AS IT IS, BUT I AGREE, REGUNBERG IS REALLY THE TOUGHEST CUSTOMER IN THE RACE.

SO MUCH MONEY.

I ALSO SAID MONEY WAS PROBABLY GOING TO BE A BIG ACTOR IN THIS.

I STILL THINK SO.

JIM: DOWN THE STRETCH.

NICK: I THINK SO.

I THINK THE MONEY IS GOING TO MATTER A LOT.

JIM: HOW MUCH IS THE SIGNATURE SCANDAL HURTING MOTTOES?

IT HAS NOT HURT HER ON ENDORSEMENT.

THE UNIONS ARE CONTINUING TO ENDORSER BUT YOU WONDER ABOUT THE AVERAGE JOE WITH ALL THE COVERAGE.

AMANDA: I THINK SHE PORTRAYED HERSELF AS A VCTIM AND THAT IS NOT REALLY POWERFUL.

IT IS HER CAMPAIGN.

SHE SHOULD BE TAKING RESPONSIBILITY FOR HOW IT HAPPENED.

OBVIOUSLY WE ARE STILL WAITIN FOR THE INVESTIGATION TO FIND OUT HOW IT HAPPENED BUT IT TOOK HER A WHILE TO GRAB THE REINS ON THIS SCANDAL AND AT THIS POINT THIS IS KIND OF WHAT HER CAMPAIGN IS STARTING TO BE DEFINED BY.

I DON'’T KNOW THAT IT'’S GOING TO HURT HER IN THE LONG RUN, BUT AGAIN, IF REGUNBERG IS IN THE LEAD, YOU DON'’T WANT ANYTHING ELSE BETWEEN YOU AND HIM.

ROB: I THINK WOULD HURT HER MORE THAN THE ACTUAL FACTS OF THE PETITION DRIVE WAS HOW SHE HANDLED IT BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.

YOU ARE IN CHARGE.

IT IS YOUR CAMPAIGN.

I THICK IF HE HAD SAID WE MADE A MISTAKE AND I TAKE RESPONSE ABILITY, SHE WOULD HAVE MINIMIZED THE DAMAGE.

IF THERE'’S ANY ACCURACY TO GABE AMO'’S POLL, SHE NOW HAS TWICE AS MUCH UNFAVORABLE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, IT'’S AN EIGHT OR NINE WAY RACE AND SHE HAS ABOUT $800,000 OF INDEPENDENT EXPENDITURE TELEVISION MONEY.

I WOULD NOT COUNT HER OUT.

IN TERMS OF THE PRIVATE POLLING, I THINK IT'’S USUALLY MORE ACCURATE THAN THE PUBLIC POLLING.

I QUESTION IT SIMPLY BECAUSE CAN THEY SPEND MORE MONEY ON IT, POSTERS WHO DO THIS FOR A LIVING ?

I QUESTION THE METHODOLOGY OF THIS POLL.

I AGREE GABE WAS SMART TO RELEASE IT AND TRY TO SAY THIS IS A TWO WAY RACE.

JIM: HE HAS US TALKING ABOUT IT.

ROB, YOU HAVE CONSULTED A LOT OF CAMPAIGNS.

WE TALKED ABOUT THIS LAST WEEK.

IT WAS BREAKING.

BRINGING IN THAT CONGRESSMAN FROM NEW YORK, AND IT KIND OF BLEW UP IN HER FACE BECAUSE HE GOT INTO IT WITH NAGEL AND KIND OF CONFRONTED THE PRESS CORPS, SAYING YOU ARE ONLY PICKING ON HER BECAUSE SHE'’S A WOMAN OF COLOR.

WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN YOU SAW HIM COME IN?

ROB: THE PROBLEM WAS IT REINFORCED ALL THE MISTAKES SHE MADE.

SOMEBODY ELSE SAYING -- BECAUSE I THINK I GOT THIS QUOTE DIRECTLY, "SHE IS THE VICTIM HERE."

JIM: DO NOT VICTIMIZE THE VICTIM.

ROB: NOT TO BE MEAN BUT IS SHE THE DONALD TRUMP OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HERE?

EVERYTHING'’S A PLOT, SHE'’S JUST A VICTIM, YOU KNOW?

JIM: SHE WOULD NOT APPRECIATE THE COMPARISON.

ROB: I DON'’T THINK SHE WILL.

BUT I THINK THAT IS THE DILEMMA HERE.

IT IS NOT THE ORIGINAL SIN, WHICH CERTAINLY WAS SLOPPY AND INCOMPETENT, BUT I THINK EVERYONE WOULD HAVE FORGIVEN THAT.

IT'’S HOW SHE'’S HANDLED IT TODAY.

JIM: I ALSO WONDER, NICK, I HAVE HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY DO WE NEED FOUR WHITE GUYS IN CONGRESS?

SABINA MATOS AND OTHERS TALKED ABOUT GETTING A WOMAN OF COLOR IN THERE.

I WONDER IF GABE AMO OFFERS THAT OPTION TO SOMEBODY GOING TO THE POLLS WHO SAID, LOOK, WE NEED A LITTLE DIVERSITY.

CLEARLY NOT A WOMAN OF COLOR BUT HE'’S BEEN IN CONGRESS AND I WONDER, IN THAT LAST 10 DAYS, WHETHER HE CAN CAPITALIZE ON THAT.

ROB: I THINK HE WILL.

WHATEVER YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT ARE ARE PROBABLY RIGHT.

PEOPLE WOULD PROBABLY LIKE TO VOTE FOR SOMEONE OF COLOR, ESPECIALLY IN CONGRESS.

I CANNOT THINK OF ANYONE WHO SERVED IN CONGRESS FOR RHODE ISLAND THAT IS OF COLOR SO -- AND HE IS SO POLISHED.

HE'’S REALLY GOOD ON TV.

JIM: AND GOOD IN PERSON.

ROB: YET.

SO I THINK HE'’S GOING TO BE IN THE RACE RIGHT DOWN TO THE END, BUT THERE'’S JUST SO MUCH MONEY OUT THERE FOR REGUNBERG.

JIM: AND DON CARLSEN WE THOUGHT HAS A BOATLOAD OF MONEY AND TIM WHITEHEAD REPORT THIS WEEK.

AMANDA: I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT BUT I WANT TO JUMP OFF SOMETHING YOU SAID TALKING ABOUT WOMEN OF COLOR AND MAYBE GABE AMO BEING THE ONE.

YOU CANNOT DISCOUNT THE ABORTION ISSUE AND HOW IMPORTANT IT MAY BE TO SEE A WOMAN, JUST A WOMAN, REPRESENTING RHODE ISLAND AT THIS POINT.

WHAT I FOUND SO INTERESTING WATCHING THESE DEBATES IS HOW DIFFERENT IT SOUNDS, BECAUSE NOW WE HAVE PEOPLE WHO ENGLISH IS NOT THEIR FIRST LANGUAGE, AND WE HAVE SPANISH ACCENTS AND IMMIGRANTS AND, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE PEOPLE.

WE DON'’T HAVE JUST THE USUAL WHITE GUYS WHO ARE COMPETING AND I THINK IT'’S REALLY SHOWN HOW INTERESTING AND DIFFERENT THE CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT HAS BECOME.

I'’M NOT SURE WHICH WAY IT'’S GOING TO GO, BUT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A CHOICE BETWEEN REGUNBERG AND A WOMAN OF COLOR OR A MAN OF COLOR, YOU KNOW, I'’M HEARING PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE, I WANT TO GIVE SOME ALLELES A CHANCE.

I LIKE BOTH OF THEM BUT WHY NOT DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT?

SO CARLSEN, WHAT A GREAT STORY.

IT'’S BEEN FASCINATING.

TIM WHITE, CHANNEL 12 DID IT AGAIN.

I HAVE COMPETED AGAINST THEM BEFORE AND THEY ALWAYS BRING THE GOODS.

THERE -- THEIR FIRST STORY WAS A LITTLE THIN AND I THOUGHT THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER SHOE TO DROP AND OF COURSE IT DID AND BECAME MORE PRONOUNCED.

JIM: FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN IT, THERE ARE ALLEGATIONS DON CARLSEN WAS TEACHING AT WILLIAMS, HIS ALMA MATER, GREAT SCHOOL, A MINIATURE IVY IN WESTERN MASSACHUSETTS, AND THERE WAS INAPPROPRIATE, POTENTIALLY, CONTACT WITH A STUDENT WHO IS GRADUATING.

IT NEVER ROSE TO THE LEVEL OF A FORMAL INVESTIGATION, BUT WILLIAMS TOLD HIM TO NOT COME BACK.

NOW, THIS IS A GUY WHO IS A SUPPORTER AND ALL OF THAT, SO THAT RAISES A COUPLE RED FLAGS.

AMANDA: SOMETIMES IN A COLLEGE ENVIRONMENT IT DOES NOT TAKE% MUCH FOR THE COLLEGE TO SAY WE DON'’T WANT TO DEAL WITH IT BUT I THOUGHT THE SECOND STORY ELABORATED ON IT AND THE FACTOR OR MULTIPLE LAWYERS IN HIS CAMPAIGN WHO TRIED TO KILL THE STORY WAS INTERESTING.

JIM: THEY SPEND MORE TIME TRYING TO KILL THE STORY THAN SIT DOWN AND SAY -- ROB: THAT WAS THE WORST MISTAKE I THINK, GETTING A BUNCH OF LAWYERS INVOLVED.

BECAUSE EVERYBODY LOVES LAWYERS.

JIM: YEAH.

YOU ARE UP THERE WITH JOURNALISTS ON THE POPULARITY POLLS.

ROB, WHAT DO YOU THINK?

ROB: IT'’S TRICKY BECAUSE, AS AMANDA SAID, YOU HAVE THIS COLLEGE SITUATION.

COLLEGES ARE ALWAYS GOING TO ERR ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION.

IT MAY BE UNFAIR.

I THINK A MORE STRAIGHTFORWARD INITIAL RESPONSE FOR HIM WOULD PROBABLY HELP.

CLEARLY WHEN YOU ARE TRYING TO DEFINE YOURSELF -- AND HE'’S GOT A LOT OF MONEY.

I WOULD NOT RULE HIM OUT.

YOU DON'’T NEED ANYTHING THAT NEGATIVELY DEFINES YOU.

SO IT IS CERTAINLY HARMFUL CAMPAIGN WISE AND MORE HARMFUL THAN IT WOULD BE FOR SOMEBODY MORE KNOWN AND DEFINED.

THE OTHER PERSON I WOULD NOT COUNT OUT WHO I THINK HAS AN OUTSIDE CHANCE BUT HAS PUSHED ABOVE HER WEIGHT -- HAS PUNCHED ABOVE HER WEIGHT CLASS IS SUSAN.

JIM: AND SHE IS WELL LIKED AND RESPECTED IN THE SENATE.

THE PAWTUCKET CABAL HAS COME OUT BECAUSE SHE WORKED THERE AND A LOT OF NORTHERN RHODE ISLAND.

I AGREE.

YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THE ESTABLISHMENT GET BEHIND HER.

ONE LAST THING ON CARLSEN.

I ALMOST THOUGHT IT WAS THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN WHERE THEY HAD THE LAST QUOTE ON THE FOLLOW-UP STORY.

THE GUY FROM WILLIAMS SAID WE ARE RELIEVED TO KNOW THAT MR. CARLSEN DID NOT WANT TO COME BACK, RIGHT?

AMANDA: YEAH.

JIM: THAT'’S A BIT OF A BURN.

AMANDA: HE DOES HAVE A LOT OF MONEY BUT HE'’S PULLING FIFTH SO THE STORY IS PRETTY HOT AND EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

WILL IT MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE RACE IN GENERAL?

I DON'’T KNOW.

WHO IS IT GOING TO PULL VOTES FROM ANYWAY?

JIM: YOU HAVE RUN CAMPAIGNS.

I KNOW THIS IS ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

WE ARE LESS THAN TWO WEEKS OUT.

BY THE TIME YOU WATCH THIS, WE WILL BE 10 DAYS FROM PRIMARY DAY.

WHAT DO THE CANDIDATES NEED TO DO IN THIS LAST 10 DAYS IN SUCH A LOW TURNOUT ELECTION?

ROB: EARLY VOTING HAS PROVEN TO BE VERY POTENT.

IT IS GET OUT THE VOTE ON STEROIDS, REALLY.

IT'’S GOING TO MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE IN THIS PRIMARY, SO JUST GETTING THE VOTE OUT AND OF COURSE RUNNING LOTS AND LOTS OF ADS TO KEEP YOUR NAME IN FRONT OF THE ELECTORATE.

JIM: AND THEY WILL HAVE TWO STATEWIDE CHANNEL 10 AND 12 -- BUT I WONDER, AMANDA, WE ARE SO INSIDE AND, YOU KNOW, THE GLOBE DID ITS THING AND WE DID OURS HERE WITH THE PUBLIC RADIO AND PROVIDENCE JOURNAL.

ARE PEOPLE REALLY PAYING ATTENTION T THINGS AS MUCH AS THEY USED TO?

AMANDA: I DON'’T KNOW.

IN GENERAL, WE HAVE THE POLITICAL JUNKIES AND THEN THE REST OF THE WORLD, WHICH IS LIKE, IT'’S AUGUST.

I'’M ON VACATION AND I WILL FIGURE IT OUT LIKE A WEEK BEFORE.

WHAT'’S THE TURNOUT GOING TO BE, REALLY?

WE TALK ABOUT THE FRONT RUNNERS.

IT DOES NOT MATTER UNTIL WE KNOW WHO WILL ACTUALLY GO UP IN THE POLLS.

JIM: HOW MANY VOTES COULD WIN THIS?

NICK: MY GUESS IS TURNOUT WILL BE A LITTLE HIGHER THAN PEOPLE THINK, NORTH OF 50,000.

LAST TIME THERE WAS A COMPETITIVE PRIMARY WITH NOTHING ELSE ON THE BALLOT -- NOTHING THAT MATTERED -- WAS 2012, CICILLINE VERSUS GEMMA VERSUS CHRIS YOUNG IN A THREE-WAY.

IT WAS ABOUT 47,000.

I THINK THIS WILL GO OVER THAT A LITTLE BIT.

15,000 DEFINITELY WINS IT, 10,000 CODE WHEN IT -- 10,000 COULD WIN IT.

IT IS GET OUT THE VOTE AT THIS POINT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, GIVEN THAT THIS RACE IS SO FLUID THIS RACE IS --GIVEN THAT THIS RACE IS SO FLUID, A REALLY GOOD PERFORMANCE OR BAD PERFORMANCE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

JIM: ANOTHER WIN FOR ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS ACT AND ANOTHER LOSS FOR JOURNALISM.

THE WIN WAS PETER NEURONAL AGAIN SIDED WITH CHANNEL 12 AND THE JOURNAL.

SOME CLERK IN JAMESTOWN SAID THE PUBLIC SIGNATURES FROM SABINA MATOS WERE NOT A PUBLIC RECORD AND THEY ARE DEAD PEOPLE.

AMANDA: IDENTITY THEFT.

HELLO?

DO YOU REMEMBER PHONE BOOKS?

JIM: RIGHT.

SO NERONO RULED IT AND MOVED THAT TO THE HEAD OF THE PAD BECAUSE HE THOUGHT IT WAS A TIMELY DECISION.

THE SADDER PART WAS YOU HAD A STORY ABOUT TWO NEWSPAPERS GOING UNDER.

AMANDA: YEAH.

I FEEL LIKE BOTH STORIES ARE REALLY UNITED IN A WAY.

I WROTE ABOUT THE COVENTRY COURIER AND ANOTHER PAPER.

ONE OF THEM STARTED IN THE 1970'’S, CAME BACK IN THE 1990'’S.

THEY WERE UNDER A PRIVATE GROUP THAT HAD BOUGHT THEM UP.

THEY OWN THE WESTERLY SUN, THE PAWTUCKET TIMES, SOME PAPERS IN CALIFORNIA, ARIZONA.

THE PUBLISHER SAID THEY DECIDED TO CLOSE THOSE TWO WEEKLIES BY THE END OF THE MONTH BASICALLY BECAUSE OF COST.

THIS RISING PRODUCTION COSTS, FILING ADVERTISING REVENUE -- FALLING ADVERTISING REVENUE.

THIS IS THE STORY OF WEEKLY PAPERS THAT HAVE BEEN DISAPPEARING AT A CLIP OF TWO A WEEK SINCE 2004 ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THIS IS SCARY.

I WORKED FOR THE BOSTON GLOBE.

I STARTED AT A WEEKLY, A TINY DAILY, AND THAT IS WHERE YOU GET TO KNOW THE COMMUNITY.

YOU ARE THE ONE REPORTER WHO SHOWS UP AND ALL THE TOWN -- UP AT ALL THE TOWN COUNCIL AND ZONING BOARD MEETINGS AND UNDERSTAND WHAT'’S GOING ON.

THE BOSTON GLOBE IS NOT DOING THAT.

PROVINCE JOURNAL IS NOT -- THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL IS NOT REALLY DOING IT.

THEY USE TO BACK IN THE DAY.

19 YEARS THERE, THEN FOUR AT THE GLOBE, BUT I STILL SAY WE OCCASIONALLY.

THAT COVERAGE IS REALLY CRITICAL.

THE PUBLIC -- PUBLISHER SAVES THE WESTERLY SUN WILL COVER IT BUT THEY DON'’T HAVE A DEDICATED GROUP ARE IN THAT AREA -- DEDICATED REPORTER IN THE AREA.

BACK IN THE DAY, ONE OF THOSE WEEKLIES STOPPED A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT GOING INTO CHARLESTOWN BECAUSE THEY INFORMED PEOPLE.

THAT IS WHAT WE NEED.

LOOK AT JAMESTOWN.

THERE'’S NO REAL DEDICATED STEADY REPORTING COMING OUT OF JAMESTOWN SO IT'’S EASY FOR A CLERK TO SAY I DON'’T GIVE THAT OUT.

I RUN INTO IT ALL THE TIME WITH POLICE OFFICERS SMALL TOWNS.

WE NEVER GIVE OUT THE LOG.

JIM: BECAUSE WE DON'’T.

AMANDA: WE DON'’T.

BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A REPORTER COMING IN ALL THE TIME THAT THEY ARE USED TOO, WE HAVE THIS INTERACTION.

THE PUBLIC IS LOSING.

JIM: YOU HAVE SEEN THAT OUT YOUR WAY TOO PROBABLY.

ROB: YEAH.

THE COVENTRY COURIER WAS A GOOD PAPER.

IT WAS A WEEKLY.

AND FOR THE RECORD, I WORKED FOR A NEWSPAPER BEFORE I WENT TO LAW SCHOOL.

JIM: BREAKING NEWS.

I NEVER KNEW THAT.

ROB: THE NORWICH BULLETIN.

JIM: WAS IT SO PLEASANT THAT YOU DECIDED TO BE A LAWYER?

ROB: I SOLD ADVERTISING SO I WAS KIND OF THE HERB TAR -- THE HERB TARLACK OF THE PAPER.

AMANDA STATED IT WELL, THAT LOCAL COVERAGE IS AN ESSENTIAL PART OF JOURNALISM.

IT'’S GOOD FOR SOCIETY AND IT'’S JUST VANISHING.

THE JOURNAL DOES NOT DO IT ANYMORE.

GANNETT HAS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT FOCUS IN RHODE ISLAND.

I THINK THE PROVIDENCE JOURNAL HAS PROFOUNDLY CHANGED IN WHAT IT COVERS AND HOW IT COVERS IT.

JIM: BECAUSE IT'’S OWNED BY A LARGER CORPORATION.

NICK: MORE THAN ONE OUT OF FIVE PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY LIVE IN NEWS DESERTS.

IT'’S BECOMING MORE COMMON.

AND IT GOES BEYOND THE IMPORTANCE OF JOURNALISM.

IT GOES TO THE IMPORTANCE OF DEMOCRACY, WHERE PEOPLE LEARN TO COMPROMISE, LEARN ABOUT PRACTICAL ISSUES, IS IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND LOCALITIES WHERE THEY LEARN TO HAVE THIS OUT AND TALKED ABOUT.

PUBLIC TV.

AND THERE'’S A CORRELATION BETWEEN ROBUST LOCAL NEWS COVERAGE AND CIVIC PARTICIPATION AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE LOSING ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY.

SOME OF THE NEW SOLUTIONS, LIKE PATCH AND OTHER ONLINE THINGS, ARE KIND OF FILLING SOME OF THE GAP, BUT NOWHERE NEAR AS MUCH OF THE GAP.

BY 2025, WE WILL HAVE LOST ONE OUT OF EVERY THREE NEWSPAPERS IN THE U.S. FROM 2005.

JIM: WHEN YOU AND I WORKED AT THE JOURNAL, YOU CAME AFTER I DID.

I WAS THERE FROM 1982 TO 1995 AND WE RAN INTO EACH OTHER A LOT.

THE JOURNAL COVERED EVERY COMMUNITY.

FOR ALL THE COUNCILMEMBERS YOU WOULD GO TO, PEOPLE WOULD CALL YOU BECAUSE THEY KNEW YOU WERE THE REPORTER FOR EAST GREENWICH OR WHATEVER.

AS MEDIA EVOLVES, AND I HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS A LOT BECAUSE I HAVE WORKED IN PRINT AND BROADCASTIG AND NOW DO A LOT OF ONLINE, THE INTERNET, WHICH IS KILLING NEWSPAPERS, HAS GIVEN RISE TO THE PATCH.

THE HUMBLE REPORT, I CAN DO AN EIGHT OR 10 MINUTE VIDEO PIECE I NEVER COULD HAVE DONE.

AND THINK OF THE GLOBE.

THE GLOBE RHODE ISLAND -- PEOPLE ARE GETTING THAT.

THEY ARE NOT GETTING THE PAPER IN THEIR DRIVEWAY.

THEY ARE LOOKING AT YOU ONLINE.

AMANDA: THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE WONDERFUL OWNERS WHO ARE INVESTING IN NEWS.

JIM: THE GLOBE, AS YOU KNOW, WAS THE FIRST ONE TO SURPASS DIGITAL SUBSCRIPTIONS PER PAST -- TO PASS THE TRADITIONAL.

YOU DO THE MATH ON THE MONTHLY TIMES AND IT FUNDS YOUR SALARY.

AMANDA: IT DOES, BUT I'’M NOT GOING TO THE COVENTRY TOWN MEETINGS ALL THE TIME.

AND IF YOU THINK THAT ALL THE COVENTRY --WHY WOULD I CARE?

WHAT HAPPENS IN THESE TOWNS AFFECT THE ENTIRE STATE.

I MEAN, IT DOES MATTER.

I AM FINDING PEOPLE JUST DO NOT WANT TO PAY FOR IT IF THEY DON'’T HAVE TO.

JIM: THAT IS THE ECONOMIC PROBLEM.

IF YOU ARE A REGIONAL OUTFIT LIKE THE BOSTON GLOBE AND YOU -- AND THE ONLINE THING WORKS AND PEOPLE ARE MOVING ONLINE TO BUY PAPERS.

IN ATLANTA, YOU CANNOT EVEN FIND A HARD-LINE NEWSPAPER.

IF YOU ARE THE NEW YORK TIMES OR THE WASHINGTON POST, YOU ARE DOING WELL BECAUSE YOU HAVE A NATIONAL AUDIENCE.

TO MAKE THE ECONOMICS WORK IN A LOCAL TOWN IS TOUGH.

THAT IS WHY THE PASS CAME ABOUT.

THAT WAS THE NOTION.

HOPEFULLY THEY WILL FIGURE IT OUT AND WE WILL HAVE MORE ROBUST COVERAGE.

>> IS A FORMER LAWMAKER AND THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, I FELT THE PRESENCE OF THE PRESS AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY MADE A TREMENDOUS DIFFERENCE OF WHAT WE DID.

AND I THINK IT IS NOT QUITE THE SAME.

THE JOURNAL DOES NOT COVER IT QUITE THE SAME AS THEY USED TO.

THEY DON'’T ALLOCATE AS MANY RESOURCES AND IT REALLY HURTS THE STATE BUT ON THE LOCAL LEVEL IT IS MUCH WORSE, I THINK.

HAVING THE PRESS AT A TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE.

IT CHANGES THE TENOR OF THE MEETING AND IT HELPS THE PUBLIC STAY ENGAGED AND IT IS SOMETHING WE ARE LOSING.

>> IT'’S A FUN PART OF MY JOB NOW.

WHEN I WALK INTO A MEETING, THERE'’S FIVE COUNCILMEMBERS WONDERING, IS HE COMING AFTER ME?

THAT IS THE FUN PART.

LET'’S DO THIS.

MOVING ALONG QUICKLY.

OUTRAGEOUS AND/OR KUDOS.

AMANDA, LET'’S BEGIN WITH YOU.

AMANDA: LET ME CONTINUE TALKING ABOUT LOCAL NEWS BECAUSE MY KUDOS IS TO ALL MY BROTHERS AND SISTERS WORKING IN THESE LITTLE WEEKLIES AND DAILIES IN RHODE ISLAND AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

THANK GOD FOR YOU COULD STAY IN THERE.

KEEP UP THE FIGHT.

JIM: ROB?

ROB: MY OUTRAGE IS THE SIX OUT OF EIGHT REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES -- WAS IT LAST NIGHT OR THE NIGHT BEFORE -- TWO NIGHTS AGO, WHO, WHEN ASKED IF DONALD TRUMP WAS CONVICTED OF A FELONY, AND, BY THE WAY, THESE FELONIES ARE OF ATTEMPTING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION, ORGANIZING A COUP, HAVING NUCLEAR SECRETS IN YOUR BASEMENT IN MAR-A-LAGO, WOULD YOU STILL SUPPORT HIM IF HE WERE THE NOMINEE?

SIX OUT OF EIGHT RAISED THEIR HANDS, THE FUNNIEST BEING DESANTIS, WHO IS LOOKING AROUND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER HE SHOULD.

MAYBE GIVE HIM CREDIT FOR AT LEAST REALIZING IT MIGHT NOT BE SUCH A GOOD THING TO RAISE YOUR HAND.

IT IS A SIGN OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP HAS DONE TO THE PARTY AND WHAT JOHN F. KENNEDY SAID WHEN HE WROTE PROFILES IN COURAGE.

IT'’S A VERY SLIM BOOK.

IT'’S POLITICS, NOT A LOT OF POPLE WITH COURAGE.

JIM: I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS A LOT WITH THE REPUBLICANS AND MAYBE NICK WANTS TO CHIME IN.

ARE THEY TRYING NOT TO ALIENATE THE TRUMP BASE IN CASE, FOR SOME REASON, HE GETS TAKEN OUT?

BECAUSE THEIR ONLY PATH TO VICTORY IF HE STAYS IN IS TAKING HIM ON, ISN'’T IT?

NICK: NOT NECESSARILY TAKING HIM DIRECTLY ON.

NEW HAMPSHIRE, HE'’S UNDER 40%.

THE FIRST ORDER OF BUSINESS AS A CANDIDATE IS TO DEFINE YOURSELF.

THEY ARE WAITING FOR HIM TO FALL UNDER HIS OWN WEIGHT.

YOU DON'’T HAVE TO TAKE HIM DIRECTLY ON BUT UNCERTAIN SORT OF FUNDAMENTAL VALUES QUESTIONS THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN NOTHING WRONG AND I DON'’T THINK IT WOULD KILL YOU POLITICALLY, BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE TO -- PEOPLE OPEN TO NOT VOTING FOR HIM, TO NOT RAISE YOUR HAND.

JIM: LET'’S GET TO NICK'’S OUTRAGE OR KUDOS.

NICK: IT IS TO THE BLOCK ISLAND FIRE DEPARTMENT, WHO SAVED A LOT OF DAMAGE THAT COULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE.

THEY DID A GREAT JOB CONTROLLING THE FIRE.

JIM: THERE IS NO TRUTH TO THE RUMOR THAT YOU RUSHED OVER WITH A HOSE?

NICK: I DID NOT.

I STAYED OUT OF THE WAY.

AND ALSO, THE MANY MUTUAL AID PARTICIPANTS FROM AROUND THE STATE.

EVERYTHING WORKED WELL.

THAT WAS A GREAT HING, WILL COORDINATE.

I WAS NOT GOING TO HAVE AN AVERAGE.

I WILL SAY JUST -- I HAVE BEEN A REPUBLICAN MY ENTIRE LIFE AND I CANNOT MAKE HEADS OR TAILS OF WHAT'’S GOING ON IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

IT IS SUCH UNCHARTED TERRITORY.

I DON'’T KNOW WHERE ANY OF THIS IS GOING.

YOU WATCH THESE DEBATES AND THE NUMBER ONE PERSON DOES NOT SHOW UP AND THERE ARE ALL THESE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING ALLEGED.

YOU KNOW, IT IS NOT JUST TRUMP.

IT IS BIDEN TOO.

HE'’S MIRED IN A REALLY BAD SITUATION WITH HIS SON.

AND HERE WE ARE HEADING INTO AN ELECTION THE LIKES OF WHICH I DON'’T THINK WE HAVE EVER SEEN WITH ALL THESE ALLEGATIONS ABOUT PUTTING PRESIDENTS IN JAIL AND EVERYTHING.

I DON'’T THINK IT'’S GOOD FOR THE COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, I THINK THE DEBATES ARE GOING TO BE IMPOSSIBLE UNTIL THEY START TALKING ABOUT DONALD TRUMP.

I DON'’T THINK THE DEBATES ARE GOING TO MEAN ANYTHING IF THEY DON'’T START TALKING ABOUT THAT.

AMANDA: I WOULD DEFINITELY AGREE.

I MEAN, HIM NOT BEING ON THE STAGE AND HE IS THE FRONT RUNNER.

HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE AND ANSWERING QUESTIONS BUT HE IS ALLEGED TO HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES AND WE WANT TO SEE THE SYSTEM WORK AND WE ARE SEEING THE SYSTEM WORK.

HE SHOWED UP TO BE ARRAIGNED.

HE SHOWED UP TO HAVE HIS MUGSHOT AND FINGERPRINTS AND BE PROCESSED.

AND WE ARE IN UNCHARTED TERRITORY.

I'’M FASCINATED BECAUSE IF THIS IS TRULY A COUNTRY OF JUSTICE, EVERYBODY SHOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE SAME RULES.

IT SHOULD NOT BE IF YOU ARE A LITTLE WEALTHY, IF YOU ARE A FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT YOU CAN ESCAPE.

JIM: OR THAT I THOUGHT THIS WAS RIGGED -- SO, WHAT IS THE DEFENSE, THAT HE WAS DELUSIONAL?

I DON'’T KNOW.

LET ME ASK YOU A QUESTION BECAUSE WE HAVE A COUPLE MINUTES LEFT.

MY FEELING IS WE HAVE 350 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY IT IS GOING TO BE TRUMP AND BIDEN AGAIN.

IF THAT IS THE CASE, LET'’S LOOK AT THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHERE WE WILL BE A YEAR FROM NOW.

YOU HAVE HISTORICAL PERSPECTIVE ON THIS.

ISN'’T IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR AN INCUMBENT TO LOSE IF THE ECONOMY IS DOING REASONABLY WELL, IF ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS, DOESN'’T THE NOD KIND OF GO TO THE INCUMBENT?

NICK: USUALLY.

ON THE OTHER HAND, JOE BIDEN'’S APPROVAL RATING IS RELATIVELY LOW.

JIM: EVEN AMONG DEMOCRATS.

NICK: OVERALL, IN THE LOW 40'’S.

HIS AGE IS A REAL ISSUE.

SO HE IS VULNERABLE AND DONALD TRUMP DID NOT GET REELECTED, GEORGE H.W.

BUSH DID NOT GET REELECTED.

YOU CANNOT GET REELECTED.

JIMMY CARTER DID NOT GET REELECTED.

NOW, DONALD TRUMP MAKES BIDEN A SOLID FAVORITE.

64% OF VOTERS ALREADY SAY THEY DEFINITELY OR PROBABLY WON'’T VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

OVER 50% SAY DEFINITELY NOT.

WHATEVER BUMPY MAY -- BUMP HE MAY BE GETTING IN THE REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES, WHICH I THINK IS OVERRATED EVEN IN THE PRIMARIES, AND THE GENERAL ELECTION, THIS HURTS HIM.

THE ACTING UP ITO'’S MAY HELP HIM -- UP HE DOES MAY HELP HIM IN THE PRIMARY BUT WILL HURT HIM WITH SWING VOTERS.

ROB: I CANNOT BELIEVE A DEMOCRAT OTHER THAN ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. HAS NOT STEPPED FORWARD.

REALLY.

I FEEL STRONGLY.

IT'’S MUCH BETTER FOR THE COUNTRY IF A GOOD DEMOCRAT CAME FORWARD.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT WHEN SOMEONE TRIED TO TAKE ON CARTER?

>> CARTER IS NOT COMPROMISED AS I THINK BIDEN CLEARLY IS.

I DON'’T THINK HE'’S GOING TO LAST ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.

SOME DEMOCRATS SHOULD STEP FORWARD, AND IF THEY WOULD, I AM SURE THEY WOULD BE REWARDED FOR THEIR BRAVERY ALONE TO TAKE HIM ON.

ALL RIGHT.

JIM: WE HAVE TO GO.

ROB, AMANDA, AND NICK, THANK YOU.

WE HAVE ONE MORE PROGRAM BEFORE PRIMARY DAY AND WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS OVER THE COURSE OF THE NEXT WEEK.

WE WILL BE BACK HERE TO DISCUSS IT AS A LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

♪ >> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI.

I AM JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS, A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS INTO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.