JIM: COMING UP, BIDEN TRUMP ROUND ONE, WE HAVE A FULL BREAKDOWN OF THE DEBATE.

AND A NEW HOLE SHOWS THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE HERE IS SURPRISINGLY CLOSE AND THE GOVERNOR HAS A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO BOOST HIS APPROVAL RATINGS.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENERALLY -- GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HELLO, I'M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, AND FOR 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED GREAT INSIGHT ON THE ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'M A PROUD SUPPORTER.

JIM: JOINING US WITH ANALYSIS, WENDI SCHILLER, NICK GORHAM, AND ED FITZPATRICK.

I'M JIM HUMMEL, IT'S GREAT HAVING YOU WITH US THIS MIDWEEK.

NOT THE DEBATE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAD HOPED FOR.

IT GOT OFF TO A ROCKY START AND STEADILY WENT DOWNHILL FOR THE PRESIDENT.

EVEN THE DEMOCRATIC ANALYSTS AFTERWARDS WONDERED IF HE NEEDED TO BE REPLACED ON THE TICKET.

WE ARE NOT QUITE THERE, YET.

WENDY, LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.

YOU LOOK LIKE NOSTRADAMUS NOW.

BACK IN THE EARLY MONTHS OF THIS YEAR, YOU SAID THIS COULD BE A POSSIBILITY AND A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID I'M NOT SURE.

WENDY: DEMOCRATIC AND REPUBLICAN PARTY HAVE CONTROL OVER THE NOMINEE, THEY HAVE PROCESSES.

BIDEN WOULD HAVE TO RELEASE HIS DELEGATES THAT HE HAS ACCUMULATED ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO RAN ANOTHER PRIMARY PLEDGIN TO VOTE FOR HIM.

IF HE RELEASES THEM HE THEY ARE OPEN TO VOTE FOR WHOMEVER THEY WANT.

THEY HAVE ALREADY AGREED TO BACKUP INFO EARLY, VIRTUALLY, IN THE BEGINNING OF AUGUST, BEFORE THE ACTUAL CHICAGO CONVENTION.

WHO WOULD THEY REPLACE AND WITH THAT WOULD DO BETTER AGAINST TRUMP?

THE RESPONSIBILITY OF A NATIONAL PARTY IS TO SAY -- DOES BIDEN BRING DOWN THE REST OF THE TICKET?

IF IT IS JUST ABOUT HIM NOT DOING WELL AND REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO ARE RUNNING IN CONTESTED SEATS IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, THE DEMOCRATS STILL SEE A GOOD LANDSCAPE FOR THEMSELVES, THEN THEY CAN REPLACE HIM.

BUT THEY HAVE TO THINK ABOUT NOT JUST THE PRESIDENCY, BUT WHAT DOES HAVING BIDEN ON THE TICKET DUE TO THEIR CHANCES OF KEEPING THE SENATE WERE WINNING THE HOUSE BACK.

JIM: WE'LL GET INTO THE LONG RUN IN A SECOND.

LET'S START WITH LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE.

>> WELL, MY FIRST ASSESSMENT WAS THAT IT WASN'T THAT BAD.

BUT I STAYED WATCHING CNN AND IT WAS JUST LIKE THIS WATERFALL OF JIM: WHY DID YOU NOT THINK IT WAS THAT BAD AS HE WATCHED IT?

3 I THOUGHT THE TRUMP -- >> I THOUGHT THE TRUMP ANSWERS WERE VERY TRUNCATED.

REPEATED THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER, STUCK TO HIS SCRIPT, DIDN'T EXPAND.

I THOUGHT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF EXPANDING ON HIS IDEAS AND HE DID DO THAT AT ALL.

BIDEN WAS, YOU KNOW, PRETTY BAD.

I THOUGHT THAT EVERY TIME HE LOOKED AT TRUMP, HE LOOKED LIKE SOMEONE IN A NURSING HOME WALKING AROUND.

HIS FACE WAS JUST -- HIS MOUTH WAS OPEN -- HE DIDN'T LOOK GOOD.

JIM: YEAH, THE SPLIT SCREEN DIDN'T DO HIM ANY FAVORS.

>> NOT AT ALL.

I THOUGHT THEY BOTH HAD A MEDIOCRE PERFORMANCE.

WHEN SEEING ON -- CNN CAME ON, THEY WERE READY TO THROW HIM OFF THE SHIP.

JIM: PREPARING THE TOMBSTONE.

>> MAYBE ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW IS THAT BEFORE THE DEBATE WAS OVER YOU HAD THE TIMES COLUMNIST SAYING THAT WE NEED TO RECRUIT EITHER GRETCHEN WHITMER OR -- AND HE ALSO MENTIONED GINA RAIMONDO, FORMER GOVERNOR OF RHODE ISLAND.

YEAH, IT SET OFF ALARM BOWLS -- ALARM BELLS THROUGHOUT THE ESTABLISHMENT.

THE DEBATE WAS NOT GOING TO HINGE ON WHETHER ONE OF THE CANDIDATES SUCCEEDED IN ARTICULATING FOREIGN OR DOMESTIC POLICY.

THE BIG QUESTION FOR BIDEN IS -- IS HE TOO OLD?

HE CAME ACROSS LOOKING FEEBLE AND OLD.

HE WAS MUMBLING, ONE MOMENT WHERE HE TALKED ABOUT BEATING MEDICAID.

HE LOST HIS TRAIN OF THOUGHT.

HE GOT STRONGER AS IT WENT ON, BUT YOU KNOW, THEY ALWAYS REFER TO THE JFK NIXON DEBATE.

THAT IF YOU LISTEN TO IT ON THE RADIO, YOU MIGHT THINK THAT NIXON HAD ONWON,, BUT IF YOU WATCHED IT YOU THOUGHT JFK HAD WON.

WORST-CASE IN AREA.

WENDY: I THINK THAT BIDEN HAD A TERRIBLE START.

THE FIRST 20 MINUTES WERE CRINGE WORTHY.

THEN I THINK THE CONTENT OF WHAT HE SAID ON NATO, ON IT BEING AN ALLIANCE FOR DEMOCRACY, FLAT -- FIGHTING VLADIMIR PUTIN, CLIMATE CHANGE, THE CONTENT IS PRETTY GOOD.

I AGREE WITH YOU, HE GOT BETTER ON ARTICULATING CONTENT.

AND HE ANSWERED QUESTIONS HE WAS GIVEN.

TRUMP DIDN'T ANSWER A SINGLE QUESTION ON THE POLICIES HE WAS ASKED ABOUT.

THE ANCHORS AT CNN TO ME WERE VERY ZOMBIELIKE, NEVER FOLLOWED UP, DIDN'T PUSH TRUMP AT ALL, ALMOST LIKE THEY WERE FRIGHTENED OF HIM.

THEY MADE MEGYN KELLY LOOK LIKE A SUPERHERO FROM 2016 HAS AN ANCHOR FOR FOX.

I REALLY THOUGHT THAT IT WAS A TERRIBLE DEBATE AND FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE IT ALLOWED TRUMP TO SPEAK LONGER, NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS, AND PRESIDENT BIDEN WAS PLAYING BY THE RULES AS DEMOCRATS FREQUENTLY DO, TRYING TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS BASED ON POLICY.

THIS WAS A DECISION BY THE CAMPAIGN TO DO THIS.

IT WAS A TERRIBLE MISTAKE.

THINK ABOUT THE STRATEGY, THINK ABOUT THE INNER CIRCLE ADVISING BIDEN.

DEMOCRATS HAVE TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR THEY HAVE BEEN AVOIDING FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS.

AMERICA HAS TO LOOK IN THE SAME MIRROR.

I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS DEBATE WHO MADE PEOPLE WHO DON'T LIKE DONALD TRUMP ANYMORE ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT HIM.

I THINK THE ENDGAME IS THAT THEY STAY HOME.

JIM: RATHER THAN COME HOME.

NICK: I DON'T THINK -- WENDY: I DON'T THINK THAT THE INDEPENDENTS ARE GOING TO GO TO TRUMP.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE MODERATORS?

I THOUGHT THE SAME THING.

I THINK THE STRATEGY WAS -- LOOK, J CAP SET MY DON'T THE KEY WAS THE BEST GUY, BUT THEY WERE AWARE OF NOT LOOKING BIASED.

I THINK THAT THEY WERE THINKING THAT THE CANDIDATES WOULD FACT-CHECK EACH OTHER IN REAL TIME AND BIDEN WASN'T UP TO IT.

>> NO, IT WAS JUST A FIRE HOSE OF LIES FROM TRUMP.

THE MODERATORS DID NOT CHECK IN.

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS THE AGREEMENT, BUT THERE WAS NOTE BACK-CHECKING IN REAL TIME AND I THINK THE LISTENERS WOULD HAVE BEEN WELL SERVED BY THAT.

THE DEBATE, EITHER IN A PRIOR WEEK ON ANOTHER SET OF CANDIDATES FOR THE MODERATOR DID IT IN REAL TIME.

JIM: HOW TOUGH IT IT HAVE BEEN TO ASK HIM ABOUT JANUARY 6, THE ELECTION, HE SAYS I DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT.

NO ONE'S GOING TO THINK THAT THAT IS IMPOLITE.

I THINK TRUMP REALIZED THAT HE DID THAT SO MANY TIMES, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FACT-CHECK ME AND I CAN GO OFF.

IT'S A CLASSIC CAMPAIGNING TRICK.

NOT A TRICK, A STRATEGY, TALK WHAT YOU WANTED TALK ABOUT, NOT WHAT THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

>> I REALLY THINK THAT THEY PRESSED REPUBLICANS MUCH HARDER ON THE FACTS IN THESE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES.

ESPECIALLY WITH TRUMP.

AT LEAST IN THE 2020 ELECTION I THOUGHT THEY WERE REALLY HARD ON TRUMP AND NOT VERY HARD ON BIDEN AND HERE WE ARE.

WENDY: THIS WAS THE REVERSE LAST NIGHT.

THE QUESTIONS THAT THEY ASKED TRUMP, THE WAY THAT THEY LET HIM GET AWAY WITH NOT ANSWERING THEM WAS NOT NEUTRAL.

AND OF COURSE, BIDEN IS THE INCUMBENT, SO THEY WILL BE TOUGHER ON THE INCUMBENT.

THE -- INCUMBENT HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE BORDER.

>> I DON'T THINK THAT THEY WERE TOUGH ON EITHER OF THEM LAST NIGHT, WHICH IS INTERESTING.

THE BIG QUESTION I HAVE IS -- WHERE HAVE THE DEMOCRATS BEEN?

AYDEN HAS BEEN LIKE THIS FOR MONTHS AND THEY KEPT SUPPORTING HIM AND SUDDENLY LAST NIGHT IT WAS LIKE NIAGARA FALLS OPENING UP.

THIS GUY IS NO GOOD, GOT TO GET RID OF THEM.

DAVID AXELROD IMPLORING EVERYONE TO JUST DUMP HIM.

JIM: VAN JONES WAS ALMOST IN TEARS.

WENDY: DAVID AXELROD HAS BEEN SAYING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

THERE IS A BIT OF AN OBAMA BIDEN COMPETITION THERE.

I'M NOT SURE WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.

VAN JONES IS VAN JONES.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY YEAH, THEY DID PUSH HIM AT ONE POINT, TRUMP AT ONE POINT, WHERE THEY SAID WOULD YOU ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION AND HE DODGED IT THREE TIMES, WHICH IS KIND OF CHILLING.

JIM: HE SAID -- IF IT'S FAIR.

>> HE WAS LIKE YEAH, IF I THINK IT'S FAIR, I WILL ACCEPT THE RESULTS.

>> HE SAID IF IT WAS A FAIR ELECTION, HE WOULD ACCEPT IT.

>> MEANING IF I WIN IT'S GOING TO BE FAIR.

COME ON.

[LAUGHTER] >> YOU ARE TRIGGERING WENDI.

>> BASH SAID -- THIS IS WHAT THEY DID.

HE WOULD DODGE FOR THE VAST MAJORITY OF US TIME AND THEN WITH 80 SECONDS THEY SAID TELL US WHAT YOU WOULD DO WITH CLIMATE.

WE ARE GOING TO HAVE THE BEST WATER IN THE BESTAIR?

CLASSIC TRUMP.

>> HE'S GOT THE BEST ENVIRONMENTAL'S.

WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?

>> I FOUND IT ENTERTAINING, WHICH A LOT OF TRUMP SUPPORTERS DID, TO.

HE WAS VINTAGE TRUMP.

A MAN WHO HAS GOT AWAY WITH THINGS HIS ENTIRE LIFE AND NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO STOP HIM, SO HE KEEPS GOING.

>> I THINK THAT BIDEN GOT A FREE RIDE LAST TIME.

LET'S FACE IT, HE SPENT WHAT, FIVE WEEKS IN A BASEMENT IN DELAWARE DURING THE CAMPAIGN AND NOBODY SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

NOW IT'S ALL COMING HOME TO ROOST.

>> HE SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN THE BASEMENT.

>> DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING THAT IF WE GET THE JOE BIDEN THAT GAVE THE LAST TWO STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESSES, WE WILL BE GOOD.

BUT NOW IT'S -- JIM: DO YOU REMEMBER THAT WHOLE THING WHERE THEY DID THE PREEMPTIVE STRIKE THAT IF HE DOES WELL HE'S ON AND IT -- A PERFORMANCE ENHANCER?

HE COULD HAVE USED A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.

WENDY: I THINK THAT IF YOU WATCHED THAT DEBATE AS SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T LIKE TRUMP AND YOU THINK ABOUT PROJECTING U.S. POWER AROUND THE GLOBE, TRUMP IS INCONSISTENT AND SEEMS TO LIKE DICTATORS MORE THAN I WOULD LIKE HIM TOO.

IF YOU THOUGHT WHO WAS GOING TO CUT THE BEST DEALS AND SCARE PEOPLE, TRUMP MADE THE CASE AND THAT DEBATE THAT HE WAS THE BETTER CANDIDATE.

HE DID.

HE WAS LIKE -- PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE -- AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT COULD PUSH INDEPENDENTS BACK TO TRUMP.

>> IT SOUNDS A LITTLE BIT LIKE RONALD REAGAN.

HE SCARED PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS PUSHED SO HARD TO CONVINCE THE PUBLIC THAT HE WAS CRAZY AND WAS GOING TO START WORLD WAR III.

JIM: THE WAS INTERESTING THAT HE INVOKED REAGAN SEVERAL TIMES.

BIKES OF COURSE, OF COURSE.

IT HAS AN EFFECT.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT IT'S SOMETHING YOU WANT TO PLAY WITH, YOU PLAY WITH FIRE WHEN YOU DO THAT, BUT IT HAS AN EFFECT.

I THINK A LOT OF THE LEADERS OF THE WORLD ARE PROBABLY GOING TO THINK TRUMP WAS MORE DANGEROUS THAN BIDEN TO THEM.

MAYBE THAT'S SOMETHING WE WANT.

>> TO BE DEVILS ADVOCATE ABOUT THE WHOLE DEBATE, I THINK MOST AMERICANS HAVE ALREADY MADE UP THEIR MINDS ABOUT THESE CANDIDATES.

THEY KNOW THEM SO WELL, A LOT OF THEM DON'T LIKE EITHER ONE OF THEM.

I DON'T KNOW, HOW MUCH OF THE NUMBERS GOING TO MOVE AS A RESULT OF LAST NIGHT?

JIM: BEFORE WE MOVE ON, WE'VE GOT A LOT OF OTHER STUFF TO GET TO, WE ARE SEVEN WEEKS FROM THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION.

SEVEN WEEKS, WE ARE 18 WEEKS OUT FROM -- GOT THIS OFF THE CALENDAR -- FROM THE ELECTION.

PLAY OFF THE SCENARIO.

WHO ARE THE OPTIONS?

MICHELLE OBAMA?

>> TO ME THERE IS REALLY ONLY ONE OPTION IF YOU ARE GOING TO REPLACE A BIDEN, GRETCHEN WHITMER.

54% FROM THE LEGISLATURE, SHE'S TOUGH, SHE SURVIVED A KIDNAPPING THREAT, A FOUL TO AN SCARY ONE, DOES WELL ON TELEVISION.

YOU CAN'T PLAY LIKE THROW IT UP AND FIGURE OUT WHO LANDS.

IT HAS TO BE THE PERSON WHO CAN WIN A SWING STATE IN THE UPPER MIDWEST WHO PLAYS WELL WITH LOTS OF GROUPS.

THIS IS THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN REPLACE THEM WITH AND IT COULD BE AN ALL-FEMALE TICKET.

PEOPLE SAY THAT CAN'T WIN?

WE DON'T KNOW IF IT CAN'T WIN.

I THINK THAT THAT TO ME, IF YOU ARE GOING TO DISRUPT IT HAS TO BE ORGANIZED.

JIM: DOES SHE BRING IN THE BLACK VOTE, THE YOUNG PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE LEFT A BIDEN?

WENDY: IN MICHIGAN SHE DOES WELL, SHE DOES WELL WITH AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN DETROIT FOR EXAMPLE.

SHE'S WON MICHIGAN TWICE.

THEY'VE HAD FEMALE GOVERNORS BEFORE.

SEEING HER ON A STAGE WITH DONALD TRUMP IN A DEBATE IS SOMETHING PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO WATCH.

I THINK THAT IT CAN'T BE HAPHAZARD OR CONFUSING.

IT HAS T BE THAT WE ARE OLD ENOUGH MAYBE -- OR MEMBER BOB STRAUSS?

THE DEAN OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY , YOU NEED SOMEONE TO BE IN A ROOM AND SAY THAT THIS IS THE PERSON AND THIS IS WHO WE ARE >> WHO HAS TO AGREE TO THAT?

THE PRESDENT MUST AGREE.

GOOD LUCK, GOOD LUCK.

>> HE WAS AT THE WAFFLE HOUSE CLAIMING VICTORY LAST NIGHT.

ANYBODY ON YOUR SHORTLIST?

>> WIT MERS THE FIRST ONE YOU WOULD GO TO.

GAVIN NEWSOM WAS ON THEIR LAST NIGHT.

WENDY: THAT WOULD BE DISASTROUS, GAVIN NEWSOM WOULD LOSE WORSE THAN BACK -- WORSE THAN BIDEN.

>> A POLE THAT INTERESTINGLY HAD TRUMP WITHIN SEVEN POINTS BEFORE THE DEBATE LAST NIGHT.

THERE WERE SOME OTHER THINGS, GOVERNOR MCKEE IN THE TANK.

WHAT DID YOU TAKE OUT OF THAT?

>> IT'S A BIG DIFFERENCE FROM THE MARGIN OF LAST NIGHT.

I THINK IT'S REFLECTIVE OF THE QUESTIONS ABOUT HIM BEING TOO OLD AND ALL OF THAT.

DEMOCRATS, AS OTHER POSTERS HAVE SAID, ALWAYS COME HOME, I WOULD EXPECT THE NUMBER TO COME UP CLOSER TO THE ELECTION.

>> WHAT ABOUT GOVERNOR MCKEE?

>> I THINK IT REFLECTS THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE, FRUSTRATION OVER TRAFFIC AND HOW HE HANDLED IT.

I THINK IT REFLECTS THAT.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE POLE?

>> MCKEE WAS 32%.

THAT'S HORRIBLE.

AS FAR AS BIDEN, SEVEN POINTS, I COULDN'T BE HAPPIER.

>> IN RHODE ISLAND?

>> YES, HE'S SEVEN POINTS AHEAD IN RHODE ISLAND.

THE LAST TIME WE WERE THAT CLOSE WAS WHEN RONALD REAGAN WAS THE WINNER IN 1984.

HERE'S WHY IT IS GOOD FOR RHODE ISLAND.

WE NEED BALANCE IN THIS STATE, A BETTER BALANCE AT THE STATEHOUSE .

IT'S SO OVERWHELMINGLY LOPSIDED WITH ONE PARTY AND THAT IS NEVER GOOD.

THAT DOESN'T GET TALKED ABOUT ENOUGH.

WITH SOMEONE LIKE TRUMP RUNNING, LIKE HIM OR NOT, HE BRINGS SOMETHING GOOD TO THE TABLE FOR RHODE ISLAND, THE CHANCE THAT WE MIGHT ELECT SOME REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVES AND SENATORS AND BRING BALANCE TO THE STATEHOUSE.

IT'S SO OUT OF WHACK.

>> THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE DISPARITY BETWEEN THE NATIONAL PLATFORM AND WHERE THE RHODE ISLANDER IS THINKING.

IT'S NOT YOUR REPUBLICAN PARTY ANYMORE, NICK.

IT'S NOT JOHN CHAFEE.

THE MAGA REPUBLICANS WITH THE ABORTION BANS, I DON'T THINK THAT PLAYS WITH MAIN RHODE ISLAND.

IF YOU ARE RUNNING FOR THE STATEHOUSE, THEY PUT THE NATIONAL PLATFORM AROUND YOUR NECK.

WENDY: LIKE THEY DID WITH ALLAN FUNG.

>> THEY MAY, BUT HERE IS SOMETHING THAT IS INTERESTING.

DONALD TRUMP WON COVENTRY WENDY: I'M MORE SURPRISED BY COVENTRY, BUT JOHNSTON TENDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CONSERVATIVE.

RHODE ISLAND IS A GREAT STATE WHERE PEOPLE -- THEY ARE CONSERVATIVE AND SOME VIEWS BUT THEN THEY SAY -- LIVE YOUR LIFE, DON'T GET IN MY WAY.

WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO IT, THE NATIONAL PARTY IS TOO FAR TO THE RIGHT FOR MOST REPUBLICANS IN RHODE ISLAND.

>> I SPENT 10 YEARS IN THE HOUSE.

I WAS THE MINORITY WHIP WHEN I LEFT.

WHAT YOU GO TO PEOPLE'S DOORSTEPS, THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT NATIONAL POLICY AS LONG AS YOU STICK TO STATE POLICY.

WENDY: WHAT WERE THE REPUBLICANS DO DIFFERENTLY IF THEY WERE RUNNING THE LEGISLATURE?

HOW WOULD THE BUDGET HAVE LOOKED DIFFERENT IF REPUBLICANS WERE IN CHARGE?

>> THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN A LOT MORE RESTRAINT IN SPENDING.

WE WOULD HAVE AN INSPECTOR GENERAL RIGHT NOW.

BRIDGE GATE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

JIM: THEY PROBABLY WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET.

13.7 BILLION AND ADDED A QUARTER OF A MILLION DOLLARS THAT MCKEE DIDN'T EVEN ASK FOR.

A REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WITH THE NUMBERS TO BE ABLE TO VETO THAT, I DON'T THINK THEY WOULD HAVE THAT, DO YOU?

WENDY: WITH MCKEE, WHO DO YOU SEE ON THE LAND SKY ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE RUNNING AGAINST MCKEE?

IS IT ABOUT UNSEATING HIM OR IS IT ABOUT A VIABLE REPUBLICAN CHALLENGER?

JIM: IT'S ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS.

WENDY: WHAT IF NICK IS RIGHT AND REPUBLICANS GAIN MOMENTUM IN RHODE ISLAND BECAUSE OF TRUMP AND THEN SOMEONE EMERGES WHO COULD BE -- WE HAD JERRY, ALMOND, CHAFEE, WE HAVE HAD A PUBLIC AND GOVERNORS.

WHO IS THERE NOW THAT COULD EMERGE TO RUN?

>> IT REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR WHO DOESN'T HAVE SOME TYPE OF INFLUENCE IN THE HOUSE OR SENATE IS A GOVERNOR THAT IS REALLY HOG-TIED BY THE, BY THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE.

YOU ARE JUST SO MUCH BETTER OFF WITH BALANCE.

>> THAT IS WHAT A LOCAL REPUBLICAN PARTY NEEDS.

>> EIGHT PEOPLE.

MASSACHUSETTS MIGHT BE WORSE.

>> MORE UNCHALLENGED SEATS.

>> SO MANY UNCHALLENGED.

GOING BACK TO THE POLE, I WAS SURPRISED BY HOW MANY PEOPLE SUPPORTED RFK HERE IN RHODE ISLAND.

>> THAT'S ABOUT NAME RECOGNITION.

NOBODY KNOWS WHAT HE SAYS.

WHEN YOU LISTEN TO A SPEECH FROM RFK, IT'S UNNERVING.

>> HE WISHES HE WAS ON THE STAGE LAST NIGHT.

>> CAN YOU IMAGINE?

>> NO QUESTION, THAT WOULD HAVE HELPED BIDEN.

>> HE COULD HAVE TAKEN THE AIR.

>> IF THEY WANTED TO KEEP THEM OUT, THEY SHOULD REALIZE.

>> BIDEN MIGHT NOT HAVE HAD THE WORST VOICE.

>> EXACTLY.

HIS VOICE ITSELF -- THE MIDDEN -- THE MINUTE BIDEN OPENED HIS MOUTH IT WAS LIKE -- WHAT HAPPENED?

TRUMP IMMEDIATELY LOOKED MORE VIBRANT.

EVERY PARTY HAS A WATERSHED MOMENT.

WE HAD THIS IN 72, 68 -- JOHNSON -- EARLIER IN THE CYCLE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT UNPRECEDENTED TO HAVE TURMOIL OVER WHO WILL BE THE NOMINEE AND WE WILL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE IF THE DEMOCRATS FIGURE OUT POLE BY POLE, STATE-BY-STATE -- THEY ARE POLLING TODAY ABOUT GRETCHEN WHITMER.

THE DNC IS NOW POLLING ON HER IN THE SWING STATES.

>> NOT ENOUGH TIME.

>> MY SUGGESTION FOR THE NEXT DEBATE, IF THERE IS ONE, THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN BRING IN JAN SIMONE.

OUR MAKEUP ARTIST.

I HEARD THAT IN THE GREEN ROOM.

SHE WOULD HAVE MADE HIM LOOK LIKE GEORGE HAMILTON.

HE WOULD HAVE GONE OUT THERE AND LOOKED GREAT.

HE LOOKED PALE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THE NIXON JFK DEBATE.

THE OPTICS.

>> MAYBE IT'S A DIFFERENT STORY IF THEY HAD JAN. >> JAN COULD HAVE BEEN WORTH FIVE POINTS IN RHODE ISLAND.

THEY'LL HAVE TO DO IT AGAIN AFTER THEY LOOK AT THAT.

ANY THOUGHTS ABOUT THE GENERALLY IS SOME -- GENERAL ASSEMBLY SESSION?

>> WELL, THE IDEA THAT WAS IN THE POLE, IT GOT VERY GOOD NUMBERS, AN INSPECTOR GENERAL.

WE NEED THAT.

WE HAVE PROVEN IT AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN.

FROM THE COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, THEIRS CAME DOWN TO TESTIFY ABOUT WHY WE SHOULD DO THAT.

IF WE DON'T HAVE BALANCE, AT LEAST LET'S HAVE AN INSPECTOR GENERAL WHO CAN KEEP AN I ON THINGS.

WE KNOW THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS HAPPEN UNDER THE DOME ON SMITH HILL.

BELIEVE IT OR NOT.

>> I DO THINK THAT MORE ACCOUNTABILITY IS BETTER IN THE QUESTION NOW AFTER GETTING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND WE SEE WHAT THE WORLD LOOKS LIKE, THEN THE QUESTIONS BEGIN ABOUT MCKEE.

DOES HE ACTUALLY RUN WITH THESE NUMBERS?

WHO ANNOUNCES WHO MIGHT RUN?

DOES REED RUN AGAIN FOR SENATE?

HE'S BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT.

HE'LL BE -- JIM: HE'S GOT TWO MORE YEARS AND WILL BE IN HIS LATE 70'S?

WENDY: ONE OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL OF ALL 100.

WALKING AWAY FROM THAT PWER -- IF THE DEMOCRATS LOSE THE SENATE YOU SAY THAT THIS ISN'T AS MUCH FUN AS IT USED TO BE.

I THINK THE REVERSE -- NOT THE REVERSE, BUT THE STRONGER TRUMP LOOKS, THE MORE WE SEE SPLIT TICKET VOTING IN THIS ELECTION AT ALL SORTS OF LEVELS.

BIDEN, BRINGING DOWN THE DEMOCRATIC TICKET?

NO.

THE INCUMBENTS RUNNING WILL VEER AWAY FROM TALKING ABOUT BIDEN, TALKING ABOUT ISSUES, TRUMP, ABORTION IN PARTICULAR, LABOR RIGHTS, UNEMPLOYMENT, THINGS LIKE THAT.

THEN THEY WILL SHIFT TO THE STRATEGY.

THE VOTERS ON THE FENCE WILL SAY -- BALANCE IT OUT, LIKE YOU TALKED ABOUT.

WE KNOW WE HAVE TO CONTAIN TRUMP, FIGURE OUT A WAY TO DO THAT.

TO ME THAT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN.

JIM: WHERE WILL THE YOUNG PEOPLE GO OR WILL THEY STAY ON THE COUCH?

>> THAT'S A BIG QUESTION.

APATHY, MIDDLE EAST, PALESTINE, GOT A LOT OF YOUNG DEMOCRATIC VOTERS UPSET.

THAT COULD BE A FACTOR.

GOING BACK TO THE BUDGET, ONE THING INCLUDED IS THE $120 MILLION FOR A HOUSING BOND AND WE JUST LOST OUR HOUSING SECRETARY YESTERDAY.

JIM: WERE YOU SURPRISED THEY LEFT?

>> YEAH, THEY WERE NOT IN THERE LONG.

SECOND TIME THAT THEY LOST A HOUSING SECRETARY SINCE CREATING THE POSITION.

IT IS SOMEWHAT OF A SURPRISE.

THAT'S A BIG JOB RIGHT NOW WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE $120 MILLION.

JIM: PLUS THE 400, PLUS THE 250, PLUS ALL.

>> I THINK HE SAW A MESS AND SAID HE'S OUT OF HERE.

WENDY: I DON'T DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOU WERE SAYING, BUT I ALSO THINK THE SPEAKER IS PERSONALLY VERY COMMITTED TO HELPING THE HOUSING CRISIS IN RHODE ISLAND AND WE SEE THIS WITH THE GRAND FLATS.

I THINK YOU WILL KEEP HIS EYE ON THIS.

I DON'T THINK HE'S GOING TO SAY -- I PASSED THE LAW AND I'M DONE.

HE WANTS TO GET IT DONE AND I THINK YOU WILL START TO CRITICIZE MCKEE IF IT DOESN'T MOVE ALONG WELL AND WHO KNOWS IF HE COULD RUN IN A PRIMARY FOR GOVERNOR.

>> HE'S GOT THE MONEY.

[LAUGHTER] JIM: LET'S DO OUTRAGE OR KUDOS.

NICK?

NICK: WELL, THE KUDOS WOULD BE TO LEADER CHIPPENDALE.

HE IS SORT OF PROPOSING INSPECTOR GENERAL AND I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA.

IT WOULD PROBABLY REQUIRE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT FOR THE INSPECTOR GENERAL TO BE EFFECTIVE, IT WILL NEED TO BE IN THE CONSTITUTION IN SOME FORM.% JIM: AND THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS IN TERMS OF WHO APPOINTS, WHO IS IT, ARE THEY FROM HERE OR FROM OUT-OF-STATE, ALL OF THAT.

NICK: RIGHT AND BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC-CONTROLLED GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS NOT PLACED ANYTHING ON THE BALLOT REGARDING A CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, IT IS MANDATORY AND MUST BE ON THE BALLOT THIS TIME.

I HOPE PEOPLE WILL VOTE FOR ONE.

THE LAST TIME THAT WE DID ANYTHING WAS SEPARATION OF POWERS, WHICH WAS A GOOD THING.

I'M A LITTLE BIASED BECAUSE I SPONSORED IT.

BUT THESE ARE GOOD THINGS, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS MORE.

BRIDGEGATE IS GOING TO POWER THE INSPECTOR GENERAL LIKE A SATURN FIVE ROCKET AND WE NEED IT.

JIM: IT'S LIKE LINE ITEM VETO.

I DON'T SEE THE LEGISLATURE GIVING UP THAT POWER ANYTIME SOON UNLESS THEY ARE FORCED.

ED: I WROTE A STORY RECENTLY ABOUT THE CHIEF OF THE WIL WORK WATER COMMISSION.

HE DOES A LAWSUIT IN FEDERAL COURT THAT ACCUSED HIM, THIS FEMALE EMPLOYEE WAS SEXUALLY HARASSED BY A COWORKER AND WHEN SHE REPORTED IT TO THE CHIEF, HE SEXUALLY HARASSED HER.

HE WAS THE SAME GUY ACCUSED OF MAKING A NAZI JOKE AND SLAPPING A JEWISH EMPLOYEE THAT HE WAS SUPERVISING.

HE PLED NO CONTEST TO ASSAULT CHARGES BECAUSE OF THAT.

SO, THEY HAVEN'T RESPONDED LAWSUIT, BUT YEAH.

JIM: AND MAYOR BUT COZY AS AN OPPONENT, THEY WEREN'T SURE THAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

>> YEAH, IT WAS GOING TO BE MCALLISTER AND THEN HAZELWOOD, FROM SCHOOL COMMITTEE, THE VICE CHAIR HAS DECLARED FOR THAT SEAT.

HE IS GOIG TO FACE A CAMPAIGN THERE.

WENDY: I AM JUST GOING TO HAVE A KUDOS FOR OUR LATE COLLEAGUE LOU, I REALLY LOVED BEING WITH ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

FOR YEARS.

HE ALWAYS USED TO DISAGREE WITH ME.

HE WOULD SIT THERE -- I WOULD HAVE LOVED TO KNOW WHAT HE THOUGHT ABOUT THE DEBATE TODAY.

I ALWAYS THOUGHT HE WAS A GRACIOUS, DIGNIFIED, CLASSY GUY WHEN I INTERACTED WITH HIM AND HE KNEW HOW TO DISAGREE WITH THE VIGOR AND MANNERS.

SO, I MISS HIM AND I'M SAD FOR HIS LOSS.

JIM: YOU AND I TEXTED RIGHT AFTER THAT.

I MISS LOU DEEPLY.

WENDY: I DID ATTRIBUTE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

JIM: LOU, HE GOT THE ABOVE AND BEYOND.

WE DID 10 MONTHS ON ZOOM AND LOU , ACTUALLY -- I SAID CAN YOU DO IT -- HE SAID HE HAD TO PROSECUTE A CASE.

HE FOUND A CONFERENCE ROOM IN DISTRICT COURT AND MADE SURE THAT THE WI-FI WAS OK.

I LOOKED AT THE PICTURE THE OTHER DAY, THERE WAS LOU SITTING BACK IN HIS NONDESCRIPT -- BUT HE WANTED TO BE ON THE SHOW.

WENDY: HE WAS GREAT.

JIM: I APPRECIATE THAT.

FOLKS, THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING A LITTLE BIT OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

IF YOU DON'T CATCH US FRIDAY OR -- FRIDAY AT 7:00 OR SUNDAY AT NOON, WE ARCHIVE ALL OF OUR SHOWS AT RIPBS.ORG AND TAKE US WITH YOU WHEREVER YOU GET YOUR FAVORITE PODCASTS.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND, WE WILL BE BACK HERE NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ♪ >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HELLO, I'M JOHN HAZEN WHITE AND FOR 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT