JIM: THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," THE COSTS OF REPLACING THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE SKYROCKETS.

AT A NUMBER OF DEVELOPMENTS AT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY THIS WEEK.

WE HAVE THE HIGHLIGHTS.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HELLO, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, AND FOR YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS SUPPORTED THE POLITICS OF RHODE ISLANDERS AND I’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM.

JIM: JOINING US, JOHN MERRIAM OF COMMON CAUSE RHODE ISLAND, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR WENDI SCHILLER, AND POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR DON ROACH.

WELCOME.

I’M JIM HUMMEL.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF THE WEEKEND WITH US.

WHILE WE ALL WAIT FOR THE DAY OF RECKONING, GOVERNOR MCKEE PROMISED IT EIGHT WEEKS AGO FOR THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE FAILURE OF THE WASHINGTON RIDGE, TO THIS WEEK, NO ONE’S SURPRISE, THE PRICE TAG HAS INCREASED DRAMATICALLY.

WITH ADDITIONS TO THE ORIGINAL ESTIMATE, IT COULD PUSH HALF A BILLION DOLLARS.

THAT’S A LOT OF MONEY, MORE THAN WE EXPECTED BEFORE.

YOU AND I WERE TALKING THIS WEEK, WHERE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IN ALL OF THIS?

NOW THEY WILL HAVE TO SWALLOW AND THEY ARE NOT SURE WHERE THEY ARE GOING TO GET THIS MONEY.

WENDI: I’M SURPRISED THERE HASN’T BEEN MORE FOLLOW-UP AND PULLING PEOPLE OUT OF D.O.T., SUBPOENAING SOME OF THE CONTRACTORS.

I KNOW THAT THERE ARE OTHER LEGAL INVESTIGATIONS GOING ON, BUT IT’S LIKE TH SOUND OF SILENCE FROM THE LEGISLATURE ON WHAT APPEARS TO BE A NATURAL EROSION OF A BRIDGE, MATERIALS ERODE, BUT GOING BACK TO THE RAIMONDO ADMINISTRATION, WHERE WHEN THEY KNEW THAT THERE WOULD BE PROBLEMS, WHY DID THEY NOT TAKE STRONGER STEPS TO ADDRESS THEM?

THAT’S A REAL QUESTION, THE PERSON RUNNING D.O.T.

NOW IS THE PERSON WHO WAS RUNNING D.O.T.

THEN AND WE WANT CLEARER ANSWERS.

JOHN: SEPARATION OF POWERS, MY ORGANIZATION HAD A LOT TO DO WITH THAT, BUT THE LEGISLATURE NEVER BUILT OUT THE OVERSIGHT FUNCTION WITHOUT 20 YEARS AGO READ THEY DON’T HAVE THE STAFF TO DO THE DIGGING THAT WENDY: IS TALKING ABOUT.

THEY HAD HEARINGS THAT WERE FAIRLY SUPERFICIAL, ASKING QUESTIONS.

THEY NEED TO DO THE DOCUMENT DIVE.

YOU KNOW, WE ARE SEEING THE PRESS DO ITS BEST, BUT THE LEGISLATURE REALLY NEEDS TO HIRE THE STAFF TO DO THE OVERSIGHT, YOU KNOW?

IT’S LITERALLY COSTING US MONEY THAT THE LEGISLATURE CAN’T DO THAT.

DON: AND IT FEELS LIKE -- DOES MICKEY CARE ABOUT THE WORDS HE’S TELLING THE PUBLIC?

HE’S TALKING ABOUT COMING UP WITH FORENSIC ANALYSIS AND ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT.

MY TRUST AND FAITH AS A RHODE ISLANDER FOR 30 YEARS IS ALREADY LOW, BUT REALLY LOWER THROUGH THIS PROCESS WHERE WE DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED.

IF IT IS GENERAL EROSION, HOW DID THE ESTIMATE FOR FIXING THE BRIDGE CHANGE SO MUCH, SO QUICKLY, IT GOING TO CHANGE AGAIN?

IS IT GOING TO BE THREE QUARTERS OF A BILLION DOLLARS A YEAR?

I DON’T KNOW IF THE RHODE ISLAND PUBLIC SHOULD HAVE FAITH IN THE ADMINISTRATION ABILITY TO FIX THE BRIDGE.

JIM: AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE FALLBACK NOW IS -- TAKE A DEEP DIVE, WE DON’T WANT TO GET IN THE WAY OF THE LEGAL PROCESS, THEY HAVE HIRED THESE LAWYERS.

HAS THE SIGNAL GONE TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY?

SHOULD WE WAIT UNTIL THAT PLAYS OUT?

ONE OF THEM IS POTENTIALLY MONEY LIKE THEY DID IN 38 STUDIOS, BUT WHAT ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND PERSONNEL AND WITHIN STATE GOVERNMENT?

WENDY: IT’S A SMALL STATE.

PRIVATE ENGINEERING FIRMS, STATE ENGINEERING FIRMS, CONTRACTORS, IT’S A SMALL COMMUNITY, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PROJECTS GOING ON AND THERE ARE WAYS WHERE YOU DON’T WANT TO GO AFTER A CONTRACTOR WHOLESALE, COULD BE THAT THEY ARE DOING OTHER WORK THAT’S PERFECTLY FINE.

IT’S DELICATE BECAUSE IT IS SO SMALL, THE COMMUNITY IS SO SMALL, BUT THE IDEA BLAMING THE CONTRACTORS TO ME DOES NOT SEEM REASONABLE WHEN THERE IS A LOT OF OVERSIGHT FROM THE DOT AND YOU NEED TO KNOW WHERE IT WAS.

DON: I FEEL LIKE WE NEED ACCOUNTABILITY.

THE ARGUMENT THAT IF SHE DOES A GREAT STUFF BUT ROB FROM A BANK, YOU KNOW, WE DON’T WANT TO STOP THE OTHER GREAT THINGS THEY ARE DOING?

I KNOW THAT IS NOT WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT THAT’S HOW I HEARD IT.

THE PUBLIC NEEDS TO HAVE TRUST THAT IF SOMEONE DOES SOMETHING WRONG, WE CAN FIGURE IT OUT, OR IF SOMETHING GOES WRONG WE HAVE THE RESOURCES, CAPABILITIES, AND SKILL SET TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENED IN WITH THE BRIDGE I DON’T FEEL LIKE WE HAVE THAT.

JIM: IT SEEMS IT ONLY.

IF YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED LEADING UP TO THE FAILURE, ARE YOU GOING TO CHOOSE SOMEBODY WHO ULTIMATELY MIGHT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST?

JOHN: AND DON MENTIONED THAT THEY ARE DOING A LOT OF BRIDGES RIGHT NOW.

146, A FLYOVER, REDOING ALL THE BRIDGES -- WHICH WE NEEDED TO DO, WE ALWAYS FALL LAST IN THE RANKINGS OF CIVIL ENGINEERS, BUT IF IT IS THE SAME FIRMS DOING THE BRIDGES IN WE DON’T HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE FAILURE OF THE BIGGEST BRIDGE, YOU KNOW, HOW DO WE KNOW THEY ARE DOING A GOOD JOB?

WENDY: LET’S BACKTRACK A BIT.

SOME OF YOUR VIEWERS KNOW THAT I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS IN TRANSPORTATION AND ENGINEERING.

IT’S NOT THAT THEY BROKE THE BRIDGE, RIGHT?

IT’S NOT LIKE CONTRACTORS DID OR DIDN’T THINK THE BRIDGE.

WAY BACK IN 2016 IT WAS CLAY OR -- IT WAS CLEAR THAT THE REPAIRS STARTED TO GO, MILLIONS WERE ALLOCATED, AND WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT WHO IS THEY.

IS IT D.O.T.

OFFICIALS OR CONTRACTORS?

IF IT IS STARTING TO GO, WE NEED TO DO MORE THAN WE ARE DOING AND WHO MAKES THAT DECISION?

THAT’S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW.

WHAT DID D.O.T.

KNOW ABOUT THE STRUCTURE OF THE RICH AND WHAT DECISIONS WERE MADE ABOUT HOW THEY WOULD REPAIR IT WE DON’T KNOW.

JIM: THEY KNEW 10 YEARS AGO, FIVE YEARS AGO, NOW EVERY TIME YOU ASK THE GOVERNOR OR THE ADMINISTRATION, THEY SAY THE PROCESS NEEDS TO PLAY OUT.

WHEN I HEARD THE DAY OF RECKONING PRESS CONFERENCE, SOUNDED TO ME LIKE THEY HAD IN MIND THAT IT IS COMING SOON TAKEN A LOOK, AND IT HAS BEEN A WEEKS.

SO, WHAT HAS CHANGED?

DON: YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS JIM: MINE.

JIM:COME ON, YOU HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS HERE.

[LAUGHTER] DON: THAT’S MY POINT.

IF YOU AS THE GOVERNOR COME HELP SOMETHING THAT STRONG, AND HERE WE ARE STILL WAITING FOR ANSWERS , WHAT TYPE OF CREDIBILITY DO YOU HAVE IN FIXING THIS PROBLEM OR EVEN UNDERSTANDING THE PROBLEM IS?

8 JOHN HAS DONE -- WENDY: JOHN ANY ORGANIZATION HAVE DONE SUCH GREAT WORK, IS A SMALL STAKE, BUT THE PEOPLE INVOLVED -- LV, MCKEE, THE CONTRACTORS, THE PEOPLE DESIGN THINGS, THEY HAVE KNOWN EACH OTHER FOR A LONG TIME.

I HAVE KNOW WHAT DECISIONS WERE MADE, WHO KNEW WHAT, WE DON’T KNOW THAT.

IT’S HARDER IN AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER.

I THOUGHT THE GOVERNOR SHOULD NOT HAVE USED DAY OF RECKONING.

I THOUGHT IT WAS AN EXTREME PHRASE AND YOU SAY YOU DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING AND NOW YOU ARE ANNOUNCING A DAY OF RECKONING?

YOU EITHER KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING OR YOU DON’T.

JOHN: AND THAT HAS COME BACK TO BITE HIM.

HE BACKED OFF ON THAT.

THE DAY OF RECKONING, THOUGH, IT’S BEEN PUT BEHIND THIS CLOAK OF LEAD THE LAWYERS DO THEIR WORK.

TO BE CONTINUED.

A LOT GOING ON IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AS WE HEAD INTO THE BACKSTRETCH WITH MAJOR THINGS GOING ON THIS WEEK.

FRIDAY MORNING, THE FULL HOUSE PAST CHANGES TO THE MUCH DISCUSSED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS THAT HAS BEEN AROUND FOR 50 YEARS.

JOHN, YOU HAVE BEEN AT THE LEGISLATURE A LOT.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS AND A SECOND, BUT SOME OF THE PROGRESSIVES WERE LIKE -- WE NEED TO GO FURTHER.

FROM WATCHING THE LEGISLATURE, YOU KNOW THIS IS INCREMENTAL.

IT’S BEEN INCREMENTAL, BUT THIS IS BIG PASSAGE.

JOHN: I WAS THERE FOR MOST OF THE DEBATE BEFORE I HAD TO TESTIFY ON THE SENATE SIDE.

IT WAS VERY EMOTIONAL, THAT’S THE THING.

MANY OF THESE LEGISLATORS HAVE BEEN WANTING TO DO THIS SINCE 2020.

WE ARE ONE OF THE LAST STATES TO TAKE ACTION AFTER GEORGE FLOYD’S MURDER IN 2020.

SO, IT HAS BEEN A LONG TIME COMING AND I THINK THERE IS A LOT OF EMOTION UP THERE, BECAUSE BOTH SIDES, RIGHT, THE PROGRESSIVES WANTED MORE.

I THINK THERE ARE SOME VERY GOOD POINTS THE PROGRESSIVES WERE MAKING ABOUT HOW IN THE MOST EXTREME CIRCUMSTANCES, THE MINNESOTA CIRCUMSTANCE, A POLICE OFFICER GETS TO KEEP THEIR JOB THE PROCESS PLAYS OUT ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE.

HOW OTHER STATES HAVE MANAGED TO OVERCOME THAT AND THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES THERE, BUT WE HAVEN’T, THEY LEFT OPEN SOME QUESTIONS THERE.

YOU KNOW, IT WAS INTERESTING, BECAUSE THE LEADERSHIP KIND OF SAID THAT IF THERE’S MORE WE CAN DO, WE WILL COME BACK AND DO IT, BUT THAT IS KIND OF HOLLOW.

OFTEN THEY DO THE TOUGH THING AND LET IT SIT FOR YEARS.

YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK THEY WILL COME BACK AND CHANGE IT.

I THINK THIS IS ALL WE ARE GOING TO SEE.

WENDY: I THINK THAT THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO EXPLAIN TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC WHAT THESE CHANGES ARE AND WHY THEY WILL BE MORE FAIR TO ADMINISTRATORS, MAYORS, POLICE CHIEFS, LAW ENFORCEMENT AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MISTREATED.

I FEEL LIKE IT IS STILL THIS THING WE ARE DOING, POLICE REFORM, BUT I FEEL LIKE THE VOTERS ARE NOT ONTO EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND WHAT THE CHANGES ARE.

AND WE WILL SEE HOW THEY DEAL WITH IT BECAUSE LAW ENFORCEMENT IS ALSO A CONSTITUENCY.

WHO’S REALLY GOING TO EXPLAIN IT?

JIM: IT USED TO BE A CHIEF COULD ONLY SUSPEND SOMEONE FOR TWO DAYS, WHICH IS RIDICULOUS.

NOW IT GOES TO FIVE FOR MINOR INFRACTIONS AND UP TO 15.

THEY HAVE INCREASED THE PANEL FROM THREE PEOPLE TO FIVE PEOPLE, BRINGING IN DIFFERENT COMPOSITIONS.

PRIMARILY LAW ENFORCEMENT.

WENDY: THIS IS KEY, GOING FROM JUST YOUR PEERS HAVING OUTSIDERS, THAT’S A CRUCIAL PART OF THE BILL.

IT HAS TO BE CLEARLY EXPLAINED.

JIM: THE TRANSPARENCY MODEL IS THE LAST ONE.

CHIEFS, IT USED TO DRIVE US CRAZY -- CAN YOU TELL US THE TIME OF DAY?

"SORRY, LAW ENFORCEMENT BILL OF RIGHTS PREVENTS ME -- JOHN: THE GAG ORDER SEEMS TO BE WHAT THE FOLKS WERE MOST PROUD OF, NOT TYING THE HANDS OF THE CHIEF.

DON: I THINK GOING FROM TWO DAYS TO 14 DAYS, FOR ME THAT’S THE BIGGER CHANGE.

EVEN THOUGH 14 DAYS DOESN’T FEEL LIKE A LOT, IF YOU -- I GET INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY, BUT WHEN YOU ARE WORKING FOR A COMPANY AND YOU HAVE CODE OF CONDUCT AND YOU VIOLATE IT, YOU CAN BE TERMINATED.

IT BOGGLES MY MIND HOW THE POLICE CHIEFS IN RHODE ISLAND, IN THE ACTUAL STATE, COULD ONLY SUSPEND FOLKS FOR UP TO TWO DAYS .

I’M GLAD TO SEE THESE CHANGES, BUT I THINK WE NEED TO DO MORE TO BUILD IN ACCOUNTABILITY AND I AGREE, I DOUBT WE WILL SEE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES BEYOND THIS.

JIM: DRUNK DRIVING USED TO BE A CIVIL PENALTY IN RHODE ISLAND.

THEN IT WAS INCREMENTAL.

THEY MOVED FROM CIVIL TO CRIMINAL AND THEN TO .8.

I UNDERSTAND THE THINKING.

IT DIDN’T HAPPEN ALL AT ONCE, IT HAS TO HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

THIS IS MORE CONTROVERSIAL.

WHAT IF THE PEOPLE COME BACK WITH MORE CHANGES NEXT YEAR?

OR WILL THIS PLAY OUT OVER FOUR OR FIVE YEARS LIKE DRUNK DRIVING DID?

JOHN: I WOULD LOVE TO BE PROVED WRONG ENOUGH FOR THEM TO REVISIT THIS NEXT YEAR, THE HEREAFTER, SLOWLY MOVING THE CENTER POINT WHERE THE PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS WANTS IT, THEY’VE MADE PERFECTLY VALID POINTS.

BUT IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT AS THE BILL MAKES A DISTINCTION BETWEEN MAJOR THINGS THAT POLICE OFFICERS O WRONG.

NOT WEARING THE HAT AT THE RIGHT TIME.

THAT’S THE BASIC EXAMPLE.

NOT COVERING THE TATTOOS.

BUT IF YOU READ THE BILL, THERE’S A LOT COVERED BY INFRACTIONS -- MINOR INFRACTIONS AND I THINK WE WILL SEE MINOR INFRACTIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE OUTRAGED ABOUT THE HELP THAT MOVES, TO, BECAUSE I DON’T THINK THAT WAS SET AT THE RIGHT LEVEL.

WENDY: OVERALL, PER CAPITA OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT AND COMPLAINTS ABOUT AGREE JUST ACTS ARE LOWER THAN A LOT OF OTHER STATE.

I THINK THAT SOMETHING WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF.

BUT ALSO THINGS LIKE RECRUITMENT, TRYING TO ACTIVELY RECRUIT MEMBERS WHERE THOSE WHO ARE PART OF THE COMMUNITY AND WE ARE A DIVERSE STATE AND A PART OF THE COMMUNITY, TRAINED IN COMMUNICATION, THESE THINGS ARE REALLY IMPORTANT.

I UNDERSTAND WE HAVE TO REFORM THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AND HAVE HAD EGREGIOUS EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE DOING OUTRAGEOUS THING AND STILL BEING PAID AND YOU THINK HOW CAN THIS BE POSSIBLE, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND WE WANT TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THE BEST, MOST MODERN POLICING.

MAKE SURE THERE IS ENOUGH MONEY THAT YOU DON’T ALWAYS GO TO THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, YOU DON’T ALWAYS ASSUME THE WORST OF PEOPLE.

THAT WILL TAKE EFFORT, MONEY, RECRUITMENT.

IT GOES HAND-IN-HAND WITH THIS BILL.

JIM: I ALSO THINK WE LOT THEM -- WE HAVE LOST ART OF COMPROMISE.

THEY GOT A LOT AND A LT OF PEOPLE VOTEDAGAINST THEM BECAUSE THEY DIDN’T GET EVERYTHING THEY WANTED.

I HOPE THAT WHEN THEY WAKE UP THIS MORNING, THEY KNOW WE HAVE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS.

DON: IT’S A LOT OF PROGRESS AND THEY SHOULD HAPPY ABOUT THAT AND I AGREE THAT OUR POLICE FORCE HAVE HAD A NUMBER OF INTERACTIONS OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS AND HAVE FELT TREATED FAIRLY.

BUT THAT’S NOT NECESSARILY THE WING.

THE POINT IS TO POSSIBLY PROTECT THE PUP KNOW THAT POLICE ARE JUST AS ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AS THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN A THINK THESE CHANGES GO IN THAT DIRECTION.

JIM: ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS ACT, 12 YEARS AGO, AND WE INTERVIEWED LOU DEPALMA FOR THAT SHOW, WE HAVE HAD BEFORE IS WORKING ON IT, AND WHERE ARE WE AS WE HAD TO THE FINISH LINE?

THEY ARE ASKING FOR A LOT IN MAYBE THIS IS WHERE WE GET WHAT WERE TO CHANGE JOHN: I’M TOLD THAT IT IS STILL ALIVE, BUT A LOT OF THINGS ARE STILL ALIVE UNTIL THE BUDGET GOES.

I’M HOPEFUL THAT WE WILL GET SOMETHING.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE, YET.

I KNOW THERE IS A WHOLE PART OF THE BILL WE ARE PUSHING THE DEALS WITH LAW-ENFORCEMENT RECORDS.

SO, HAVING THE ISSUE DONE AND WRAPPED UP, CONCENTRATING ON THAT CARLA MAY BE DEALING WITH THE POLICE RECORDS IN OUR DISCUSSIONS UP THERE, THAT WAS, THEY WERE SORT OF TIED TOGETHER UNNECESSARILY.

SORT OF LIKE WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT MORE BEFORE WE CAN DEAL WITH POLICE RECORD.

SO I’M OPTIMISTIC.

WENDY: NOT TO THROW SOMETHING IN HERE, BUT WHAT ABOUT PAYDAY LENDING?

I GOT SOME OF INTEREST RATES TO THE PEOPLE WHO CAN LEAST AFFORD IT.

JIM: 265% SEEMS REUTIMANN -- REASONABLE.

WENDY: SEEMS CRIMINAL TO ME.

LITERALLY.

BY IS IT THAT EVERY TIME IT COMES UP -- THEY JUST HAD A BIG ARTICLE ABOUT HOW IT’S GETTING WORSE.

JIM: WHO IS THE LOBBYIST?

FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

[LAUGHTER] YOU HAVE TO GO FURTHER.

WENDY: I KNOW, I KNOW, BUT THE PROGRESSIVES AND HOW QUICKLY THEY HAVE BECOME A FORCE IN RHODE ISLAND POLITICS, THIS IS SOMETHING PREYING ON THE WORKING POOR IN THEIR MOST VULNERABLE TIME.

JIM: DIDN’T PASS THE CHAMBER LAST YEAR?

JOHN: CLEARLY, MORE PROGRESSIVE LEGISLATION IS COMING OUT OF THE HOUSE AND THE MIDPOINT OF THE CAUCUS IS MOVING LEFT.

LEADERSHIP IS MORE CONSERVATIVE STARTING AT THE TOP.

THIS IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS ON ASSAULT WEAPONS.

LOCKED IN THE SENATE.

WE WILL SEE IF THE SENATORS CAN ORGANIZING AND GET IT THROUGH.

I DON’T, YOU KNOW, HAVE A SENSE OF HOW IT’S GOING TO DO.

JIM: THE KONTAVEIT -- JIM: QUICKLY, BEFORE WE GO, SAFE STORAGE BILL?

WENDY: THEY MET WITH STUDENTS FOR AN HOUR, THEY WERE OPEN AND TRANSPARENT.

THERE WAS JOCKEYING BETWEEN THE SENATE AND, BLAMING THE OTHER ONE, HE WAS HOPEFUL, CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC, THAT IS WHERE HE LEFT IT.

JIM: THAT IS AS CLOSE AS YOU WILL GET.

LEON, THE COLLEGE PROTESTS THAT CAME TO BROWN, OVER WITH A COMPROMISE.

RECENTLY HAD THE PLEASURE OF GOING TO A COLLEGE PROTESTS THIS WEEK, BUT IT ENDED PRETTY QUICKLY WHEN THE PRESIDENT SAID WE ARE NOT GOING TO SUSPEND OR REVIEW YOU, THEY WILL EXPEL YOU.

GOT THEIR ATTENTION.

3 DEFINITELY.

-- DON: DEFINITELY HAD I’M GLAD THAT STUDENTS ARE PROTESTING.

YOU SHOULD PROTEST IF THERE IS SOMETHING YOU BELIEVE IN THAT STRONGLY.

MY ISSUE WITH SOME OF THE PROTESTERS AND SOME OF THEIR CLAIMS AND WHAT THEY WANT, THEY ARE INTERRUPTING THE EDUCATION OF OTHER STUDENT.

IT’S ONE THING IF YOU PROTEST AND ARE ON PUBLIC PROPERTY AND NOT IMPEDING ANYTHING ELSE BUT IT’S ANOTHER TO FEEL LIKE YOU ARE OCCUPYING SPACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO GET AN EDUCATION.

NOT EVERYBODY IS AS EXCITED ABOUT THE ISSUE YOU ARE THAT ABOUT TESTING.

I THINK -- I FEEL LIKE YOUTHFULNESS, THERE’S A LOT OF EXCITEMENT, EXUBERANCE, PASSION.

I WAS A YOUTH AT ONE POINT IN TIME.

BUT THERE’S NOT ALWAYS A BROADER PERSPECTIVE.

ONCE EXPULSION CAME INTO PLAY, THEY DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO END IT.

JIM: THEY WERE GOING TO GET A PHONE CALL FROM THEIR PARENTS, GET OUT OF THE BUILDING.

WE WILL SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT IN THE FALL, BUT WHAT WAS IT LIKE BEING THERE DAY TODAY.

DID IT OVERSHADOW THE WHOLE UNIVERSITY?

WENDY: NO.

I WOULD SAY THAT IT WAS INTENSE.

THE PEOPLE CONCERNED ABOUT PROTESTING WERE INTENSE ABOUT IT.

57, 5700 GRADUATE STUDENTS REGISTERED ON CAMPUS.

THE VAST MAJORITY, IT WAS TOUGHER IN THE FALL FOR A LOT OF STUDENTS WHEN THERE WERE THINGS OUTSIDE OF MEETING HALLS -- MEETING HALLS CAFETERIA’S WHERE THEY WOULD GO IN AND NOT BE NECESSARILY ACCOSTED BUT ASKED WHAT THEY THINK, I THINK THAT WAS TOUGHER.

THIS WAS REALLY LOCATED ON THE GREEN AND EVEN WHEN THEY WENT INTO THE ADMINISTRATION BUILDING IT WAS STILL SOMETHING MOST OF THE STUDENTS IT REALLY DISSIPATE IN OR DR.

IT DIDN’T REALLY INTERRUPT CLASSES BUT IT DID WHEN THEY WERE ARRESTED NOT ONCE, BUT TWICE.

THE IDEA IS THESE WERE CONSENT -- INTENSE CONCERNS THAT MERIT DISCUSSION, SO THERE WILL BE MODERATED DISCUSSION IN MAY WITH STUDENTS FROM THE CORPORATION AROUND AND A PROCESS THROUGH WHICH YOU GO FOR DIVESTMENT THAT WE HAVEN’T BROWN AND THE STUDENTS WILL BE INVOLVED AND IF IT THE CRITERIA OF MAKING A REPORT, THE REPORT GOES TO THE QUESTION IN HAND IS DECIDING ABOUT WHETHER TO SUPPORT MILITARY ACTION OR NOT.

WE WILL HAVE TO SEE.

SHE MADE A DECISION.

THERE WAS A MOMENT TO STRIKE A DEAL.

A VIDEO WENT AROUND THAT WAS VERY CONTROVERSIAL FROM THE NIGHT BEFORE.

I DON’T THINK IT WAS GOING TO BE IN THEIR FAVOR.

IT WAS GOING TO GIVE HER MORE LEVERAGE.

THEY BOTH SAW AN OPENING IN BOTH SIDES TOOK IT.

NOW WE HOPE FOR A PEACEFUL GRADUATION.

JIM: PRACTICAL QUESTION, DO THEY HAVE TO CHANGE OUT THE SOD ON THE LAWN?

THE GRASS WAS NOT UP TO NORMAL STANDARDS.

WENDY: THERE WAS A REALLY OLD TREE THAT WAS DYING, REALLY HUGE, THEY HAD TO REMOVE IT, SO IN THAT PROCESS THEY DID REPAIR SOME OF THE GRASS.

DON: YEAH -- JOHN: YEAH, I THINK BROWN WAS THE BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR HOW IT COULD HAVE TURNED OUT , BUT MOST DISTURBING IS THIS INFORMATION OF DONORS IN THE TAIL WAGGING THE DOG.

THESE UNIVERSITIES VALUE THEIR ENDOWMENTS SO MUCH.

THE POINT IS NOT THE ENDOWMENT, THE POINT IS THAT UNIVERSITY IS INVOLVED IN EDUCATION.

IT’S DISTURBING.

I LIVED THROUGH THE INVESTMENT PROTESTS IN SOUTH AFRICA HEY 80’S, BUT THEY ARE A FRACTION OF WHAT THEY ARE NOW.

THE ENDOWMENTS HAVE BECOME SO IMPORTANT THESE UNIVERSITIES.

THAT IS WHY WE SEE PEOPLE APPOINTED PRESIDENTS OF THE UNIVERSITIES, LIKE THE ONE FROM COLUMBIA, WHO WAS A BANKER, NOT AN ACADEMIC LIKE THE PRESIDENT OF ROUND WHO CAME UP THROUGH ACADEMIA.

I DON’T THINK THEY ARE -- I DON’T THINK THAT THESE FORMER BANKERS OF THE BEST PEOPLE TO BE UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS.

8 -- WENDY: ROUND NUMBERS, THEY SOUND LIKE MORE MONEY, AND IT’S A DIFFERENT CATEGORY, BUT DON’T FORGET THAT BROWN IS LEADING, NO LOANS.

THE DONOR MONEY, I CAN UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE DO NOT WANT DONOR INFLUENCE, BUT THAT MONEY IN THE ENDOWMENT PROVIDES AN OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE TO GO TO A LOT OF THESE SCHOOLS THAT DON’T HAVE A LOT OF WEALTH.

IT’S A TRADE-OFF, IT’S A BALANCE.

YOU DON’T WANT A DONOR SET TO INFLUENCE FOREIGN INVESTMENT POLICY FOR UNIVERSITY, HOWEVER YOU CAN’T DISMISS THE DONORS FOR BEING THE VIEW RULES.

JIM: I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ONE QUESTION ABOUT THIS, BUT I DON’T WANT TO ASSURE YOU.

ANY OUTRAGE THIS WEEK?

DON: OUTRAGE THIS WEEK IS COLLEGE COSTS.

MY MIDDLE SON IS GOING THIS YEAR AND WHEN I WENT TO BROWN, I THINK IT WAS IN THE 30’S.

OBVIOUSLY, IT HAS BEEN A WHILE SINCE I WAS IN COLLEGE, BUT TO SEE COSTS OF LIKE 75,000, $80,000 PER YEAR FOR COLLEGE, THAT’S JUST CRAZY.

ANYBODY ELSE OUT THERE GOT KIDS GOING TO SCHOOL IF YOU ARE SEEING THOSE TYPES OF COSTS?

HOW DO WE GET THOSE COSTS UNDER CONTROL?

JIM: ESPECIALLY WITH TWINS, RIGHT, JOHN?

JOHN: YEAH, AS JOHN KNOWS, WE HAVE TWINS WHO ARE HIGH SCHOOL SEAT YEARS AND LOOKING AT THE BILL IS SCARY.

THE KUDOS WAS ANNOUNCED ON WEDNESDAY THAT COMMUNICATIONS, THE THREE NEWSPAPERS FROM THE BEACON, THEY ARE GOING TO BE PURCHASED BY JOY FOX, A SORT OF WELL-KNOWN POLITICAL OPERATIVE IN THE STATE.

JOHN HOWELL IS A SORT OF INSTITUTION OF JOURNALISM IN THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND FOR 50 YEARS.

THE THREAT IS ALWAYS OUT THERE THAT WHEN THIS GENERATION OF SMALL-TOWN NEWSPAPER PUBLISHERS WANT TO RETIRE, DESERVEDLY SO, THEY ARE NOT BE ABLE TO FIND A BUYER.

SO, IT’S GREAT THAT THOSE WEEKLY PAPERS ARE GOING TO LIVE ON UNDER THE GUIDANCE OF LOCAL HOMEOWNERSHIP, BECAUSE WE HAVE SEEN WHAT OWNERSHIP DOES, RAVAGES THE NEWSPAPER.

JIM: AND JOHN WILL KEEP HIS HAND IN EDITORIAL.

WENDY: GUNS, GUNS, GUNS.

TRAFFIC TO -- TRAGIC SITUATION IN LOWELL WHERE A MAN WITH NO PROBLEMS, BUT APPARENTLY HE HAD EIGHT GUNS IN THE HOUSEHOLD AND VERY SADLY HE MURDERED HIS WIFE, SEVEN-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER, CALLED THE FAMILY, SO I KILLED THEM, KILLED ELF.

IF PEOPLE ARE NOT WILLING TO LIMIT GUNS, FIRST LIKE DON’T KNOW WHY SOMEONE NEEDS EIGHT GUNS, BUT IF NOT, SAFE STORAGE.

MEANING THAT IF YOU ARE GETTING IMPULSIVE AND UPSET AND ANGRY AND YOU HAVE TO GO AND UNLOCK THE CONTAINER FOR YOUR GUN, IT GIVES YOU ANOTHER MINUTE, MINUTE AND HALF, SLOWS THINGS DOWN.

IF WE CANNOT GO TO LIMITING GUNS, LET’S TRY TO LIMIT INJURY AND DEATH AND PAY ATTENTION TO IT.

NO REASON WE HAVE TO LIVE LIKE THIS IN AMERICA.

JIM: I WAS GOING TO GIVE YOU A WHOLE THING ABOUT THE PROTESTERS, NO TIME, JUST 30 SECONDS LEFT, SO FOR ANOTHER DAY.

WHAT ELSE ARE YOU LOOKING AT FOR GENERAL ASSEMBLY BETWEEN NOW AND THE FINISH LINE QUESTION MARK JOHN: IT’S GOING TO BE -- LINE?

JOHN: THE BUDGET, IT’S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING, THE REQUESTS FROM PEOPLE, NOT ENOUGH TO FUND.

FROM OUR PERSPECTIVE, THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAS A LOT OF BILLS AROUND ELECTIONS.

WHICH ONES ARE THEY GOING TO LET FLY?

WE NEED TO KIND OF MOVE THE PRIMARY BIT EARLIER TO ADD SOME TIME FOR THEM TO PUT THE SIGNATURES ON THAT HAVE BLOWN UP IN THE LAST FEW ELECTION CYCLES.

JIM: ALL RIGHT, GET SOME SLEEP THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

ACTUALLY, YOU CAN SLEEP IN THE SUMMER, NOT THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS.

JOHN, WENDY:, DON:, GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

WE OWE -- ARCHIVE ALL OF OUR SHOWS AT RIPBS.ORG/LIVELY.

CRAZY COUPLE OF WEEKS, FOR COVERAGE AND ANALYSIS.

HOPE YOU JOIN US HERE NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

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VISIT NCICAP.ORG] [CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] ♪ >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HELLO, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE AND FOR THURSDAY -- 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT