>> THIS WEEK ON "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," THERE IS A NEW NUMBER TWO TO JOIN THE NEW NUMBER ONE AT THE STATEHOUSE.

>> I KNOW SABINA MATOS WILL HELP OUR ADMINISTRATION SERVE ALL RHODE ISLANDERS AS WE RECOVER AND REBUILD FROM THIS PANDEMIC.

I AM HONORED TO NOMINATE HER FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR TODAY.

>> AND THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS TELL THE STATE WE WOULD LIKE OUR SCHOOL SYSTEM BACK.

ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS INTO IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US WITH THE ANALYSIS, TED NESI, POLITICS AND BUSINESS EDITOR FOR WPRI TV, BOB WALSH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, RHODE ISLAND, AND BROWN UNIVERSITY POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR WENDY SCHILLER.

JIM: I AM JIM HUMMEL.

WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF YOUR WEEKEND WITH US.

WE HAVE A WINNER IN THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR SWEEPSTAKES CONTEST.

GOVERNOR MCKEE'S CHOICE OF SABINA MATOS TO JOIN HIM AT THE STATEHOUSE SET OFF A HUGE RIPPLE EFFECT ALONG THE RHODE ISLAND POLITICAL LANDSCAPE THIS WEEK FROM PROVIDENCE CITY HALL UP FRANCIS STREET.

IF YOU DID NOT HAVE A CHANCE TO SEE IT, WE ROLLED TAPE ON THE INTRODUCTION.

THIS IS SOME OF WHAT THE NOMINEE HAD DISABLED GOVERNOR MCKEE INTRODUCED HER.

SABINA MATOS: THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND FACES MANY CHALLENGES AHEAD.

TOGETHER, WE WILL TAKE THE ISSUES THAT ARE MOST IMPORTANT TO OUR RESIDENTS, GETTING VACCINES IN ARMS, GETTING PEOPLE BACK TO WORK, AND ADDRESSING THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING CRISIS, AND HELPING OUR SMALL BUSINESSES COMMUNITY TO GET BACK ON THEIR FEET AND GET THROUGH THIS GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

I STAND HERE AS THE NOMINEE FOR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, BUT MY STORY BEGINS IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC.

MY FAMILY CAME TO THE UNITED STATES IN 1994 TO FIND A BETTER LIFE.

I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO BEING YOUR PARTNER AND BEING ON YOUR TEAM.

THANK YOU.

[APPLAUSE] JIM: SO, OF COURSE, AS PROVIDENCE CITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT, HER RESIGNATION SETS OFF A REPLACEMENT THEY ARE AND CHANGES THE GOVERNOR'S RACE IN 2022.

TED, INITIAL THOUGHTS ABOUT THE CHOICE AND WHAT HAPPENS GOING FORWARD?

TED: IT SEEMS LIKE A CHOICE THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE FOR DAN MCKEE POLITICALLY.

I WOULD SAY THERE WAS A LOT OF PEOPLE THINKING JAMES WAS THE FRONT RUNNER TO GET THIS BEFORE THE TRANSITION HAPPENED.

PRETTY EARLY IN THE TRANSITION, HIS NAME STARTED TO LOSE ALTITUDE AND IT BECAME CLEAR MCKEE WAS LOOKING AT A LONGER LIST.

MATOS QUICKLY ROSE.

SHE IS A MUNICIPAL LEADER.

WE KNOW HOW DAN MCKEE FEELS ABOUT MUNICIPAL LEADERSHIP.

A WOMAN, LATINA, GOOD REPUTATION AND PROVIDENCE AS SOMEONE WHO GETS THINGS DONE, SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A PERSON PEOPLE WOULD GO TO IF THEY DID NOT THINK THEY WERE GETTING HEARD BY THE ADMINISTRATION, IT WOULD GO TO HER ON THE COUNCIL.

IT IS FASCINATING HOW IT SCRAMBLES A LIST OF OTHER RACES.

BOB HAS SAID TO ME IN THE PAST THAT THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS AMBITIOUS POLITICIANS NEED PLAN B'S BECAUSE WE ALL VOTE FOR YEARS YOU HAVE AN OPEN GOVERNORS RACE.

NOW YOU HAVE AN INCUMBENT.

HOPEFULLY, THINGS ARE ON THE UPSWING.

NOW HE HAS A PARTNER WHO CAN GIVE HIM MORE CREDIBILITY IN PROVIDENCE WHICH IS IMPORTANT IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

VERY INTERESTING.

THERE WILL BE A LOT OF THINGS TO WATCH COMING OUT OF IT.

JIM: WENDY, WHAT DO YOU TAKE OUT OF IT?

TED: I THINK SABINA MATOS -- WENDY: I THINK SABINA MATOS HAS BEEN A RISING STAR AND MADE HER NAME IN PROVIDENCE.

DOES MCKEE GIVE HER MORE TO DO?

DOES HE BRING HER INTO HIS DECISION-MAKING?

DOES HE MAKE HER MORE OF A PARTNER EVEN THOUGH THE JOB DOES NOT REQUIRE THAT, YOU WOULD EXPECT IF YOU WANT TO RUN AS A PSEUDO-TEAM AND SHE IS WILLING TO DO THAT IN 2022 PRIMARY, I THINK THE LATINO COMMUNITY WOULD KNOW, A REALLY IMPORTANT VOTING BLOC FOR THE PRIMARY.

I THINK THIS IS A QUESTION MARK IN TERMS OF WHERE THEY GO FROM HERE AND WHAT ROLE DOES SHE PLAY.

JIM: DAN MCKEE TOLD ME LAST SUMMER HE HAS BEEN PUSHING FOR THEM TO RUN AS A TICKET, JUST AS CHARLIE BAKER AND THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS.

THEY MIGHT DO THAT DE FACTO.

YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT FOR THAT.

THAT IS FORMIDABLE IF YOU SEE THEM AS A TEAM.

BOB, YOUR INITIAL THOUGHTS?

BOB: AS TED NOTED, I HAVE BEEN LIVING POLITICS SINCE PATRICK KENNEDY DECIDED TO GO FOR THE SEAT.

POLITICIANS DO NEED A PLAN B. JIM: YOU ARE NOT RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR?

BOB: NO IMMEDIATE PLANS TO RUN FOR ANY ELECTED POSITION.

YOU WILL ALL KNOW FIRST IF THAT CHANGES.

I THINK ANALYZED THROUGH THE POLITICAL ENDS OF THE 2022 GUBERNATORIAL ELECTION, I THINK IT IS A GREAT OPENING GAMBIT FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE.

THE NEXT SEVERAL MOVES WILL BE INTERESTING.

THERE WERE FOUR OTHER FINALISTS.

I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT UPON GOVERNOR MCKEE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO INCORPORATE ALL OF THOSE FOLKS AND A LOT OF THE OTHER APPLICANTS INTO HIS ONGOING POLITICAL STRATEGY.

CERTAINLY, THE MAYOR WITH HIS PRIOR EXPERIENCE AND RELATIONSHIPS IN MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT, IF HE DECIDES TO LEAVE BROWN, I ASSUME HE WOULD BE WELCOME IN A MCKEE ADMINISTRATION TO RIDE HERD OVER THE MAYORS AND TOWN ADMINISTRATORS HE ALREADY HAS RELATIONSHIPS WITH.

MY FRIEND, LOUIS DIPALMA, WHO WOULD HAVE BEEN A TERRIFIC CHOICE, KNOWS THE BUDGET INSIDE AND OUT.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE HIM TAKE ON A ROLL, IF HE GOES INTO GOVERNMENT, AS THE STRAW BOSS OVER ALL COMPUTER PROBLEMS.

THAT WOULD BE A HECK PLACE TO START.

HE KNOWS HHS.

LIZ AS THE NATIONAL COMMITTEE WOMAN AN AMAZING FUNDRAISER COULD PLAY A ROLE IN A MCKEE FOR GOVERNOR 2022 EFFORT.

GRACE DIAZ WOULD BE A FORMIDABLE ADDITIONAL ALLY TO ALREADY HAVING SABINA MATOS ON THE TICKET.

THAT IS THE POLITICAL SIDE.

FROM THE GOVERNMENT SIDE, IT IS UP TO DAN TO SHOW THEY CAN GOVERN AS A TEAM.

I THINK GOVERNOR MCKEE WILL ABSOLUTELY TREAT HIS LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR THE WAY HE WANTED TO BE TREATED BY GINA RAIMONDO AND SHOW RHODE ISLAND BY EXAMPLE THAT IT SHOULD BE A TICKETED TEAM.

AS YOU POINT OUT, WE CANNOT DO IT CONSTITUTIONALLY.

IT WOULD HAVE TO BE LEAD BY EXAMPLE AND THEN PUT IT ON THE BALLOT AND MAKE IT LAW FOR A FUTURE RACE.

JIM: WE ARE HEARING SHE'S GOING TO BE ON STAGE THIS AFTERNOON.

WE WILL SEE IF THAT HAPPENS.

WHAT ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S RACE?

SETH MAGAZINER HAS ALWAYS BEEN A GOOD FUNDRAISER.

DAN MCKEE NOT SO MUCH.

I WONDER IF THIS FLIPS THE TABLES.

INCUMBENCY HELPS.

DOES YESTERDAY'S DECISION CHANGE THE DYNAMIC AT ALL?

DO YOU THINK MCKEE HAS GOT TO PROVE HIMSELF IN THE NEXT YEAR AND A HALF REGARDLESS OF WHO IS IN THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR'S SEAT?

WENDY: I DON'T THINK THEY ARE GOING ANYWHERE.

THEY EACH HELD A PUBLIC EVENT ON MONDAY NIGHT.

ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN.

THINGS CAN GO REALLY WELL.

WE HOPE THEY DO.

WE HOPE COVID STATES UNDER CONTROL AND THE VACCINATION RATE CONTINUES TO CLIMB AS WE HAVE WORKED THROUGH INITIAL DIFFICULTIES.

AND THAT SMALL BUSINESS AND TOURISM COME BACK TO RHODE ISLAND.

YOU REALLY HAVE TO GAUGE HOW WELL THAT WILL GO.

IT WILL BE TIED SOMEWHAT TO THE NATIONAL ECONOMY OF COURSE.

IF YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE PRIMARY AND THINGS IMPROVED STEADILY, I THINK MCKEE BECOMES ON.

AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T SEE THE TWO OTHER MAJOR CONTENDERS, AND POSSIBLY JORGE, BUT I THINK THEY ARE STILL IN IT AND SHORING UP THEIR OWN POLITICAL FORTUNES.

WE COULD HAVE REDISTRICTING.

WE COULD HAVE ONE CONGRESSIONAL SEAT.

WE TALK ABOUT THAT MATCH.

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF A FEW OTHER PEOPLE JUMP INTO THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY IF WE GET DOWN TO ONE SEAT.

THAT WILL BE A NEW WRINKLE IN OUR POLITICAL DYNAMIC.

JIM: I HAVE DONE THIS WITH EVERY PANEL SINCE MCKEE HAS TAKEN OVER AS GOVERNOR.

LET'S GO AROUND THE HORN QUICKLY.

TED, QUICK IMPRESSIONS ABOUT MCKEE, HOW HE HAS DONE THE FIRST MONTH, DIFFERENCES FROM AMANDO -- AMANDO -- RAIMUNDO.

TED: I HAVE NOT BEEN SURPRISED.

IT HAS BEEN WHAT I EXPECTED.

I HAVE COVERED DAN MCKEE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS.

A MUCH MORE DOWN TO EARTH GOVERNORSHIP.

GINA RAIMONDO, THERE IS A REASON SHE IS COMMERCE SECRETARY NOW.

SHE ALWAYS HAD AMBITIONS THAT WERE UNUSUALLY HIGH.

SHE HAD A REASON TO HAVE THEM BECAUSE SHE IS NOW COMMERCE SECRETARY.

GINA RAIMONDO AND HER TEAM DID NOT ALWAYS LEAVE A LOT OF ROOM FOR OTHERS TO BE CENTER STAGE.

DAN MCKEE IS MORE COMFORTABLE WITH OTHER ELECTED OFFICIALS IN STATE-LEVEL POLITICS FURTHER DOWN.

THEY HAD SOME REAL BUMPS INITIALLY COMMUNICATION WISE.

I THINK THEY REALIZED THEY NEEDED MORE SEASON FOLKS AROUND AND HAVE WORKED ON THAT.

I THINK IT WILL COME DOWN TO HOW HE HANDLES THE VACCINES.

DOES HE OPEN THE ECONOMY IN A WAY THAT GETS IT OPEN AS QUICKLY AND SAFELY AS POSSIBLE?

AND HOW DOES THE ECONOMY DO OVERALL?

THE AMOUNT OF STIMULUS IS SO EXTRAORDINARY.

DAN MCKEE OUGHT TO BE ABLE TO BECOME QUITE POPULAR.

IF HE DOES NOT, HE AND HIS TEAM WILL HAVE TO LOOK INWARD BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN DEALT A GREAT HAND.

JIM: BOB, INITIAL IMPRESSIONS?

BOB: GOVERNOR MCKEE HAS BEEN DEALT A GREAT HAND.

THERE IS ONE AREA I HAVE HIS AGREEMENT WITH HIM ON THAT WE WILL GET TO LATER IN THE SHOW.

BUT I DISAGREE WITH ALL OF THEM.

I HAVE NOT HEARD ANY GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE SAY I AM ON YOUR SIDE ON THE CHARTER ISSUE.

I THINK IN AN EARLIER INTERVIEW, I COMPARED HIS STYLE TO ANOTHER STYLE.

I HEARD IN A SUBSEQUENT INTERVIEW THE GOVERNOR COMPARE HIMSELF AND HIS STYLE TO THE.

JIM: YOU WENT THROUGH EVERY GOVERNOR GOING BACK TO 1800.

TRY NOT TO DO THAT THIS WEEK.

BOB: I GAVE YOU THE LITANY.

WE COULD GO BACK ALL THE WEIGHT.

-- ALL THE WAY.

FROM A PERSONAL LEVEL, ORGANIZATIONAL LEVEL, HE HAS BEEN OPEN AND ACCESSIBLE.

HIS FOLKS HAVE BEEN OPEN AND ACCESSIBLE.

FOR ANY NEW ADMINISTRATION, THERE WILL BE BUMPS ALONG THE WAY DEALING WITH THE MEDIA.

BUT THOSE THINGS USUALLY SORT THEMSELVES OUT.

I THINK IT DOES SHAKEUP THE FIELD.

I THINK WHILE NELLY AND SETH HAVE ACQUITTED THEMSELVES WELL IN THEIR STATEWIDE POSITIONS, THERE IS A NEW PLAYER IN TOWN THAT CAN BE ON TV EVERY WEEK SO IT WILL BE FASCINATING TO WATCH IT PLAY OUT THROUGH THE CYCLE.

AS WINDY POINTS OUT, THERE MAY BE OTHER PLAYERS AVAILABLE DEPENDING ON WHAT HAPPENS WITH REDISTRICTING AND THE SENSES.

I DO BELIEVE WE WILL LOSE A CONGRESSIONAL SEAT.

JIM: WENDY, FIRST IMPRESSIONS?

WENDY: I THINK HE IS TRYING TO PORTRAY HIMSELF AS A COALITION BUILDER.

WHEN YOU COME FROM A LOCALLY ELECTED OFFICE LIKE MAYOR RATHER THAN ENTERING POLITICS AS A STATE TREASURER, YOU REALIZE YOU HAVE GOT TO GET THE BUY-IN OF THE PEOPLE WHO IMPLEMENT YOUR POLICIES OR PLANS.

HE SEEMS TO BE SOMEBODY WHO NATURALLY SEEKS THAT.

HOW HE ADAPTS TO THE CHANGING NATURE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN RHODE ISLAND, WHICH HAS CHANGED FASTER THAN A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK, NOT ONLY DEMOGRAPHICALLY AND ETHNICALLY BUT IN TERMS OF POLICY, NOT JUST GOING LEFT UP WITH THINGS PEOPLE WANT TO SEE HAPPEN, HOW HE CAN BE FLEXIBLE WITH THAT ELEMENT OF THE PARTY.

AND THAT IS THE QUESTION MARK ABOUT WHAT SABINA MATOS BRINGS TO HIS COUNSEL.

THAT WILL BE IMPORTANT TO GETTING THE VOTE OUT AND GETTING PEOPLE TO SIDE WITH YOU IN THE PRIMARY A YEAR FROM NOW.

HE HAS A YEAR TO DO THAT.

HIS INSTINCT IS TO BUILD COALITIONS.

IF HE STICKS WITH THAT INSTINCT, THAT BODES WELL FOR HIM.

TED: ONE THING I HAVE NOTICED THE LAST COUPLE OF CYCLES IN RHODE ISLAND AND MASSACHUSETTS IS DEMOCRATS WHO ARE NOT AS THROWN BY THE TWITTER LEFT, THE VERY VOCAL FOLKS ON TWITTER WHO MAY GET ATTENTION BUT DON'T ALWAYS REPRESENT THE BROAD DEMOCRATIC ELECTORATE, YOU THINK OF JOE BIDEN.

HE WAS NEVER GOING TO WIN A PRIMARY ON TWITTER, BUT HE IS THE PRESIDENT NOW.

GINA RAIMONDO COMPARED WITH MACK BROWN WON THAT EASILY.

DAN MCKEE HAS NEVER BEEN BELOVED BY THAT PART OF THE PARTY, SO I THINK HE WILL HAVE AN EASIER TIME SHRUGGING THAT OFF AS HE DID IN 2018.

THAT IS ANOTHER INTERESTING DYNAMIC AS HE NAVIGATES THE CHANGING DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

JIM: THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS UNION THIS WEEK TOLD THE STATE WE WOULD LIKE OUR DISTRICT BACK.

WE WANT TO TAKE IT BACK FROM THE STATE AND HAVE CITY CONTROL.

THE MAYOR AND THE BIG COMMISSIONER -- ED COMMISSIONER BASICALLY DISMISSED THAT.

I KNOW THIS IS NOT YOUR UNION.

THE ISSUE WITH THE PROVIDENCE TEACHERS AND THE CHARTER SCHOOL ISSUE WITH MCKEE, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON IN THE SCHOOL AND UNION WORLD RIGHT NOW.

WERE YOU SURPRISED BY AFT MAKING THAT REQUEST SO SHORT INTO THE STATE'S TENURE?

TED: IT IS KIND OF LONG INTO THE STATE'S TENURE BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN AT THE BARGAINING TABLE FOR OVER A YEAR.

I DISAGREE WITH THE STATE'S APPROACH TO HOW THEY HAVE HANDLED THIS.

SOMEONE WHO HAS BEEN A PROFESSIONAL GOOD NEWS -- NEGOTIATOR FOR 30 YEARS, IT WAS PROBABLY A MISTAKE FOR THE COMMISSIONER TO INSERT HERSELF DIRECTLY IN COLLECTIVE BARGAINING WITH THE TEACHERS.

IT DISTRACTED HER FROM THE OTHER 38 CITIES AND TOWNS AND IT GAVE NO PLACE FOR THE SUPERINTENDENT TO GO TO CHECK, SO TO SPEAK, SINCE THERE WAS A TAKEOVER.

I WOULD NOT HAVE HANDLED IT THAT WAY.

THE STORIES I HEAR IS THAT THERE WAS A HIGHER LEVEL OF ACRIMONY AND HOSTILITY.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAPPENED WAS A ROOKIE MISTAKE.

I DON'T KNOW IF THE COMMISSIONER HAS EVER NEGOTIATED CONTRACTS BEFORE.

BUT WHEN YOU SAY THE TEACHERS AGREE WITH ME, IT IS THE UNION THAT DOES NOT, THERE IS A PROTECTIVE RESULT OF NO CONFIDENCE WHERE 1600 OF THE 1900 TEACHERS VOTED OVERWHELMINGLY NO-CONFIDENCE.

THEY ARE SAYING WE ARE UNITED AND TRUST OUR LEADERSHIP.

I GET IT.

IF YOU HAVE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE, YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED BY HOW COLLECTIVE BARGAINING WORKS.

BUT IS THE ONE AREA UNDER THE LAW WHERE PEOPLE SIT DOWN AT THE TABLE AS EQUALS.

IT OBSCURED THE UNDERLYING MESSAGE.

THE TEACHERS OF PROVIDENCE ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM TEACHERS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

THEY CARE ABOUT THE KIDS.

THEY WANT THE RESOURCES TO ACHIEVE GOOD OUTCOMES.

THAT IS SEPARATE FROM THE CHARTER ISSUE BUT EQUALLY DIFFICULT WHEN THAT DEBATE IS GOING ON.

IT PUTS THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION IN A FASCINATING ROLE BECAUSE THEY ARE SIMULTANEOUSLY SAYING WE WANT TO MAKE CHANGES IN PROVIDENCE AND WE WANT TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE A PARALLEL SYSTEM OF SCHOOLS IN PROVIDENCE AT THE SAME TIME.

THE MESSAGES KIND OF COME IN CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER.

FOR THOSE OF US ROOTING FOR POSITIVE OUTCOMES EVEN INDEPENDENT OF THE PANDEMIC, IT IS HEARTBREAKING.

JIM: WENDY, THE PARENTS LOOK AT THIS AND THINK TIME IS GOING, WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE?

THEY JUST WANT TO GET SOMETHING RESOLVED AND HAVE THE SYSTEM MOVE FORWARD.

WENDY: I THINK THERE IS A NATIONAL MOMENT FOR UNIONS.

OBVIOUSLY, BOB CAN CHIME IN.

BIDEN HAS DESCRIBED HIMSELF AS A UNION GUY.

HE'S TRYING TO MAKE MOVES THAT SHORE UP INDUSTRIES THAT EMPLOY PRIVATE UNION WORKERS.

HE SHINING A SPOTLIGHT ON UNIONS RIGHT NOW.

FOR THE OTHER VOTERS WHO WILL DETERMINE WHO GOES TO THE STATE LEGISLATURE, WHO BECOMES GOVERNOR, MAYOR, THE BATTLE IS NOT AS WELL DEFINED IN THE GENERAL PUBLIC AS I THINK IT COULD BE ON EITHER SIDE.

WHEN THE SCHOOL TAKEOVER CAME, IT WAS FAILING STUDENTS IN THE STATE HAD TO TAKE IT OVER.

WHAT HAS THE STATE DONE DIFFERENTLY?

WHAT IS THE STATE GOING TO DO DIFFERENTLY?

WHAT IS IT PROVIDENCE DID NOT DO WELL?

WHAT ARE THE TEACHERS UNIONS ASKING FOR IN PROVIDENCE?

I THINK TO THE AVERAGE PERSON STRUGGLING WITH COVID AND THE ECONOMY, THIS BATTLE IS STILL INSIDER.

I THINK THE PROBLEM FOR MCKEE AND GENERALLY SPEAKING IS WHEN KIDS GO BACK TO SCHOOL ACROSS THE STATE COMPLETELY IN SEPTEMBER, AS WE HOPE THEY DO, THE SPOTLIGHT SHINES ON SCHOOLS AGAIN.

I THINK THAT IS THE ISSUE NOW WITH TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE POLITICAL IMPACT WILL BE OF THE CONFLICT.

JIM: GO AHEAD, BOB.

BOB: THE HEARING LAST NIGHT ON THE CHARTER BILL DID GIVE US INSIGHT INTO PROVIDENCE IN URBAN CORE COMMUNITIES.

THERE WAS A LOT OF HEARTBREAKING TESTIMONY THAT BOTH SIDES HAVE TO DO A LOT OF SELF REFLECTION ON.

WHEN ONE OF THE PARENTS SAID THEY DO NOT NEED SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS AND CHARTER SCHOOLS BECAUSE CHARTER SCHOOLS ARE SAFE, THAT JUST BREAKS YOU BECAUSE IT IS NOT THE TEACHERS THAT DO NOT MAKE THEM SAFE.

YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THERE ARE SOME PARENTS TRYING TO GET OUT OF OUR -- THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF THE TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT THINK THEIR KIDS ARE SAFE THERE.

THAT SHOWS A SYSTEMIC PROBLEM THAT HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH LABOR-MANAGEMENT RELATIONS.

AND IT SHOWS THE SLOGAN OF THE CURRENT PRO CHARTER MOVEMENT IS WE HAVE WAITED LONG ENOUGH, LET'S GET THE RESOURCES WE NEED INTO THE TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

CHARTERS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE ROLE MODELS, LABORATORIES SHOWING WHAT WORKS.

TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WORKS, IT IS INCUMBENT ON YOU TO MAKE SURE EVERY PUBLIC SCHOOL STUDENT CAN AVAIL A SELF -- THEMSELVES TO THAT.

PART OF THAT IS THE WRONG WE DON'T UNILATERALLY OPPOSE CHARTERS.

I HAVE FRIENDS THAT WORK AT AND MANAGE CHARTERS AND SEND THEIR KIDS TO CHARTERS.

THEY ARE HARD-WORKING TEACHERS AND ADMINISTRATORS AND STUDENTS JUST LIKE ANY TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

BUT RHODE ISLAND HAS TO CONFRONT THE QUESTION, WHEN IS IT ENOUGH?

WHEN HAVE WE LEARNED ENOUGH IN THESE LABORATORY EXPERIMENTS FOR 25 YEARS THAT WE CAN SAY THIS WORKS, LET'S MAKE SURE EVERYONE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT?

THAT IS THE REAL DEBATE.

WHEN THEY HIRE P.R.

AGENTS AND DO MAILINGS, THAT IS A DIFFERENT DYNAMIC.

JIM: THE UNION HAS NEVER DONE THAT.

GO AHEAD, TED.

TED: I JUST THINK IN THE END, WHY DID THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOLS GET TAKEN OVER?

BECAUSE THE EVIDENCE POINTED TO A LOT OF KIDS GETTING FAILED IN OUR LARGEST SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

FUNDAMENTALLY, THAT IS THE QUESTION.

IF IT IS NOT A TAKEOVER, IS ANYTHING GOING TO CHANGE?

WHAT IS GOING TO CHANGE?

THESE ARE VERY HARD QUESTIONS.

THAT IS PART OF WHY THIS HAS NOT GONE AS PEOPLE HOPED.

THIS IS REALLY HARD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TURN AROUND AN URBAN DISTRICT THAT HAS HAD PROBLEMS FOR A LONG TIME.

I DO WONDER TO WHAT EXTENT COVID IS PART OF THE STORY HERE.

YOU HAD THE TAKEOVER PUT IN PLACE.

WITHIN MONTHS, GOVERNOR RAIMONDO, WHO WAS PASSIONATE ABOUT THE PROVIDENCE SCHOOLS EFFORT, IS SPENDING ALL HER TIME ON AN NEXT RECORD PANDEMIC.

THEY ARE HAVING TO OVERNIGHT REINVENT HOW K-12 EDUCATION IS CONDUCTED IN RHODE ISLAND.

I WONDER IF THERE WAS MORE BANDWIDTH AT THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IF IT WOULD NOT FEEL LIKE IT DRAGGED ON SO FAR WITH NOTHING MUCH HAPPENING.

THERE WOULD STILL BE BARGAINING ISSUES.

IT WAS STILL PROBABLY BE CONTENTIOUS.

I THINK WE ALL KNOW HOW WE HAVE BEEN DISTRACTED FROM WHAT WE WERE WORRYING ABOUT BEFORE COVID IN OUR OWN LIVES.

I HAVE TO THINK SOME OF THAT DYNAMIC IS IN PLAY HERE, TO WO.

BOB: I THINK COVID HAS BEEN AN ADDITIONAL LAYER.

THE GOVERNOR GOING TO WASHINGTON BECAME ANOTHER LAYER.

IT COMES DOWN TO A SIMPLE EQUATION.

IF YOU THINK CHARTERS IN BETTER, FIGURE OUT WHAT THE SECRET SAUCE IS AND MAKE SURE TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SCHOOLS HAVE IT.

I'VE TALKED ON THE SHOW IN THE PAST.

I DON'T REPRESENT PROVIDENCE, BUT WE HAVE HAD A LONG-STANDING RELATIONSHIP WITH THE DEBATE SCHOOL WHICH IS HIGHLY FUNCTIONAL.

I CAN TELL YOU SOME OF THE SECRET SAUCE.

THEY HAVE ONLY HAD TWO ADMINISTRATORS IN 30 YEARS, TWO DIFFERENT PRINCIPALS.

THE TEACHERS STAY, THEY WORK HARD.

THE COMMUNITY IS INVOLVED.

THE LOCAL FIREHOUSE GETS INVOLVED IN HELPING KIDS IN SCHOOLS.

THE LOCAL POLICE KNOW WHO THE KIDS ARE.

WENDY: AND THERE IS PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT, JUST TO JUMP IN.

THERE IS PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT.

THERE ARE REAL PRESSURES ON A LOT OF THE FAMILIES THAT SEND THEIR KIDS TO PUBLIC SCHOOL.

WE HAVE AFFORDABLE HOUSING DIFFICULTIES.

ECONOMIC DIFFICULTIES PRAYED SOCIAL STRESSES.

UNDER TRUMP, WE HAD WORK REQUIREMENTS FOR FOOD STAMPS ALTHOUGH NOT NECESSARILY IN RHODE ISLAND.

YOU HAVE REAL PRESSURES ASSOCIATED WITH POVERTY THAT STRESS A FAMILY.

THE ENERGY AND BANDWIDTH OF THAT FAMILY TO BE INVOLVED IN THE CHILD'S EDUCATION IS DIMINISHED.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE SAME WHEREWITHAL OR TIME AND ENERGY THEY CAN DEVOTE AS CHARTER SCHOOL PARENTS.

WE KNOW THIS FROM RESEARCH ABOUT WHAT INCENTIVIZES PEOPLE TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO CHARTER SCHOOLS.

I THINK BOB IS CORRECT.

IF WE DON'T FIX A LOT OF THE OTHER SITUATIONS, YOU WILL NOT FIX THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

THEY ARE NOT ON AN ISLAND.

THE ISSUES COME FROM THINGS NOT CONTROLLED BY TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOLS PER SE.

IT HAS GOT TO BE A MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH.

I DON'T HEAR THAT RHETORIC NOW.

MAYBE THE TEACHERSUNION IS SAYING THAT AND I AM NOT HEARING IT.

BUT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

IT CANNOT JUST BE SOLVED ON ITS OWN.

JIM: GUYS, WE HAVE JUST THREE MINUTES LEFT.

IT IS TO BE CONTINUED.

THANK YOU FOR THAT DISCUSSION.

TED, KEEP IT TIGHT AND BRIGHT.

TED: I DID NOT HAVE A DOUBT WHAT I WOULD SAY WHICH IS THE RIDICULOUS LACK OF TRANSPARENCY AROUND THE PROVIDENCE BUDGET.

LAST NIGHT, MY COLLEAGUE AFTER COVERING SABINA MATOS SUDDENLY BUDGET OUT OF FINANCE COMMITTEE WITHOUT RELEASING IT.

I HAVE NOT CHECKED THIS MORNING.

FOR THE PUBLIC TO LOOK AT.

I'M SURE THEY HAVE THEIR REASONS.

AS A REPORTER, I CANNOT ABIDE BY THAT.

EVEN IF YOU ARE RELEASING IT RIGHT BEFORE THE VOTE, AT LEAST HAVE IT OUT BEFORE YOU VOTE.

JIM: WENDY, OUTREACH OR KUDOS?

WENDY: THE INCLINATION TURNS TO RAISING TAXES EVERY TIME A POLITICIAN WANTS TO SPEND MONEY.

WE HAVE BIG DEFICITS AT THE FEDERAL ISLAND.

MAYBE THE RHODE ISLAND DEFICIT WILL COME DOWN BECAUSE OF FEDERAL SUBSIDIES FROM THE COVID PACKAGE.

WHY IT IS AUTOMATIC THAT YOU WANT TO IMMEDIATELY RAISE TAXES TO PAY FOR THINGS, LET'S FIGURE OUT IF THE GOVERNMENT IS SPENDING MONEY EFFICIENTLY.

LET'S FIGURE OUT IF THERE ARE WAYS TO CUT WASTE AND SPENDING -- IN SPENDING AND THEN TALK ABOUT SPECIFIC, TARGETED TAX CUTS ON THE CORPORATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS THAT CAN BEST AFFORD IT AND MAKE SURE IT MEETS REALITY.

JIM: BOB, YOU GET THE LAST MINUTE.

GO AHEAD.

BOB: I WILL MOVE QUICKLY.

A COUPLE OF OTHER EDUCATION ISSUES, NOT SHOCKINGLY.

THERE WERE 13 TEACHERS IN THE STATE THAT WORK OUT OF THE SHERLOCK CENTER THAT WORK WITH BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED STUDENTS.

THEY ARE DISPATCHED TO 33 DISTRICTS IN THE STATE.

THEY LAID THEM ALL OFF AND SAID WE WILL GO OUT FOR BIDS AND SEE IF WE CAN PRIVATIZE THIS.

THESE FOLKS HAVE BEEN WORKING LONGER THAN I HAVE IN THIS BUSINESS.

THAT PROGRAM IS REALLY EFFECTIVE.

THE STUDENTS WHO ARE BLIND AND VISUALLY IMPAIRED AND WANT TO STAY IN THEIR SCHOOL DISTRICTS WORK DIRECTLY WITH THESE FOLKS.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT WORKS.

WE SHOULD NOT BE MESSING WITH SOMETHING THAT WORKS.

THAT IS THE SMALL ONE.

THE BIG ONE IS, WHY ARE WE DOING THE TEST NEXT WEEK WHEN WE CANNOT FIND 4500 STUDENTS AT ALL?

WE HAVE ANOTHER 20,000 WAS SPOTTY ATTENDANCE.

THEY ARE DEMANDING THE TEST BE GIVEN IN PERSON.

IF YOU ARE A STUDENT WHO HAS BEEN DISTANCE-LEARNING THE ENTIRE TIME, YOU ARE TOLD YOU HAVE TO SHOW UP AT SCHOOL.

JIM: THEY MIGHT NOT KNOW WHERE THE BUILDING IS AT THIS POINT.

BOB: I WAS TALKING TO SOME OF THE CHARTER LEADERSHIP FOLKS SAYING THIS MAKES NO SENSE.

JIM: I HAVE GOT TO HOLD YOU.

FOLKS, IT IS NOT OVER.

WE WILL DO OUR SPECIAL ONLINE BONUS.

THANK YOU FOR THIS PART OF THE SHOW.

GO TO RIPBS.ORG/LIVELY TO CONTINUE THE DISCUSSION.

FOR THE REST OF YOU, COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

♪ [CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] ♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENERALLY SEE --GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT