- [Announcer 1] This week on "A Lively Experiment," the abrupt closure of a medical group will soon leave 25,000 people looking for a doctor.

And the on again, off again Trump tariffs have global markets reeling.

- [Announcer 2] "A Lively Experiment" is generously underwritten by.

- Hi, I'm John Hazen White, Jr. For over 30 years, "A Lively Experiment" has provided insight and analysis of the political issues that face Rhode Islanders.

I'm a proud supporter of this great program in Rhode Island PBS.

- [Announcer 1] Joining us with the analysis, attorney and former prosecutor Eva-Marie Mancuso, former Chairman of the Rhode Island Democratic Party, Bill Lynch, and Joe Larisa, attorney and former Governor Almond's Chief of Staff.

- Welcome to this week's "Lively," I'm Jim Hummel.

How many of you can't find a primary doctor or maybe a pediatrician?

Well, the competition is going to get a lot harder when Anchor Medical Associates closes up shop June 30th, citing low reimbursement rates and a shortage of doctors.

Now, let me tell you something we don't have a shortage of on this panel is lawyers, all right?

We got three lawyers, but no doctors.

But this issue, Bill, has been brewing for an awful long time, it's only gonna get worse.

- Actually, I'm the perfect guy to go to, 'cause I'm an, I was, I guess I still am an Anchor Medical patient and my- - So, you got the notice- - I saw my doctor coincidentally last week and had a long discussion with him about this.

Dr. Appenfeller, good luck as you ride off into retirement.

And yeah, it's a huge problem.

I mean, 25,000 people, and you know, I've made inquiries in getting responses that, you know, I gotta wait, you know, 10, 12 months and get on a list for a new primary care doctor.

So, I think, the legislature under the Speaker, the Senate president, even knows the governor recognized it's a serious issue.

It's not an easy issue to solve, right?

That's the problem.

So, there's a lot of talk about does URI do something?

But I, you know, I think Brown could be much more actively involved in this process and weigh in a lot more heavily than they have.

And I think maybe it's time to try to give them a little incentive to do that.

And frankly, when push comes to shove, it all comes down to money unfortunately, no matter what anybody says, and primary care doctors do not get compensated probably in a way that is attractive enough to not only keep the ones that we have, but also to attract new, younger men and women who, you know, are willing to go into that area.

- You've been out of the Governor's office a few years, but this has been brewing and it is the reimbursement rates.

So, now we had the salad days of a lot of money, and now not so much money.

So, if it comes to money, that's gonna be a tough sell that we need to up the reimbursement rates.

- I think it's more than that.

I think it's reimbursement rates, but, you know, Rhode Island is a wonderful place to live.

And all of those Brown students, right?

That are here and loving everything about it, we've got restaurants, we've got the beach, we've got, you know, we've got Boston an hour away.

We have so much that we have, it really, I think if our legislature and the Governor's office can come together and stop putting together packages for some of these Brown University students to stay here, you know, we look at something affordable housing and putting together a package plan.

So, it's not just in the reimbursement salary themselves.

Because the other thing too is we wanna make sure the reimbursement actually goes to the doctor.

You know, there's so many corporate levels that happen in these quagmires, I'll call them, right?

But in that whole process, we wanna make sure it goes directly.

So, if you've got a young doctor who's coming out with a lot of debt, maybe we can put together a forgiveness program or something.

We have to start looking in really innovative ways to keep doctors here on the young side.

On the older side, yeah, I mean, it's just, it's strictly the reimbursement rate on that, and patient numbers.

You know, doctors do not wanna have a, you know, have a meat factory where they just see one, and one, and one, and one, and one.

I know my primary care doctor, it's typical Rhode Island, I went to high school with her, she's a couple of years younger than I am.

And you know, we talk about that all the time.

It's just, you know, she's got look at her watch because, you know, we get talking and chatting and what have you, and the next person line up next.

So, I think there's a lot of things we can do in addition to the money.

- It's a big problem, Jim, even before this Anchor issue, either yourself or you know somebody who has trouble with a primary care physician, this is gonna make it incredibly more difficult to try to get one.

And like Bill, I've been told my sister a year to try to get a new one.

So, I don't know what the solution is, but it's a problem and it's gotta be addressed sooner rather than later.

- Did you, no, go ahead.

- I think one of the other issues is the competitive nature of any business, including medicine now.

And it's changed dramatically over the past 10 or 20 years.

But the other thing is that a lot of the doctors that I'm friendly with or represent or know, talk about the difference in reimbursements in Massachusetts, for example, instead of Rhode Island.

So, if you live, you know, in Pawtucket where I live and it's 10, five minutes and you're in South Attleboro, we've seen doctors literally move a mile into their practice, a mile into Massachusetts because their reimbursement rates are a third higher than they are in Rhode Island.

So, that's the other problem is that everything is regional now.

There's, you can't survive any longer, you know, just in Rhode Island and just ignore what's going on around you.

I think that's part of the issue as well.

- But it's been a no surprise we're a border state.

You can go to Connecticut, you don't live in the middle of Texas or Nebraska.

And this is something maybe should have been talked about 10 years ago.

The URI Medical School's nice.

That's a decade out if we do it, to be able to get people in the pipeline.

I just wonder why there hasn't been more discussion in the legislature and all of, and so it's always reactive rather than, okay, where are we gonna be five years from now?

People know that people are gonna be retiring like your doctor, right?

- I think the problem with the legislature though is that they have paid attention to it, but it's a very, very difficult problem to resolve.

There's no easy answer.

You know, they've had the stakeholders involved, the doctors, the medical society, the insurers are involved.

Nobody has a magic wand that can say, here's what we're going to do.

That's been the issue.

But I think Eva's point is well taken is that they've gotta get innovative, if nothing else, to try to keep young doctors.

The problem with the URI discussion about a Medical School is, okay, so we get a medical school at URI, that doesn't automatically assure that we're gonna have primary care doctors.

We may still be getting orthopedic surgeons and cardiologists, which we all need as well.

- Right.

- But that's what I mean.

There's no simple answer to this, I don't think.

- Front page of "The Providence Journal" talked about Thundermist.

And just that was, it couldn't be more topical when we talked about what the discussion was gonna be today.

And, you know, when I read the article, I said to myself, that's a perfect way to do it.

You know, you have the hands-on treatment of young people that wanna be in the primary care area.

You train them hands-on and you put them to work so that they're actually seeing patients under the supervision of doctors, and that's happening.

And now look at, they're worried about their funding because of what's happening now with the, what's that guy's name, the president?

Oh, yeah.

- We'll talk about it in a minute.

- With the administration, they're talking about the worry about funding there.

So, it's a complex problem.

I don't agree with you that it's just been a new problem.

I mean, this is something that's discussed every single year, it comes up in the legislature.

Every single year the Governor's office is talking about reimbursements.

- But for example, the Governor put in this year, he put in $400,000 for tuition, you know, medical debt for a doctor, that might cover two or three people.

So, I mean, it's a nice step, but to say, oh, we're really working on the problem, you gotta make a major investment in the incentives that you talk about.

You have to make it attractive for people to stay in Rhode Island after Medical School, right?

- The problem is when you do the budget, and I told you, you know, I sat at the table for more than one budget, and you have to take from somewhere else.

So, at a time when you have austerity coming in, you have to pull back, where do you put your priorities into it?

So, I agree with you on that part, is that that's where the pulling and tugging come in and the lobbyist, and they'll sit down.

But I think it's very important that we make sure that the money actually goes to the doctors and not some corporate structure.

Because that's the problem in medicine, is that we set up all of these layers and then it never gets to that doctor.

So, in spite of doing all of the reimbursement rates and increases and what have you, we'll still lose doctors if it doesn't go directly into the pot.

That's why I like the incentives because it goes, it's Jim Hummel's deal, so you know exactly what you're getting and you can sign on to it.

The person feels good about it.

And also it's something that they can take to the bank.

- Okay.

- Plus we just need Joe to pick up the phone and call Donald Trump and get him to- - Yeah, Joe.

- Send us the money that- - Trump (crosstalk) I can't wait.

- All right, hey, listen- - And I get more time.

- Let's do that, that's a great segue into another week, another crazy ride with the Trump administration.

Joe, let's begin with you.

If anybody's keeping an eye on the stock market, it's been a bit of a roller coaster.

- I don't think it's fair to blame Joe for everything that's going on.

- We'll put it all on Joe.

- A lot of the blame goes with Joe, but not everything.

(Bill and Eva-Marie laughing) - I don't- - Joe, are the tariffs working?

- Everything's working.

- It is?

- I wake up every day with a smile on my face.

Even I were here right after the election, I asked you to be on the show for a victory lap, it's far better than anything- - [Jim] We said 100 days, but you had- - 81.

- [Jim] Coming at 81.

- I'm coming back in 19 days, by the way.

- [Jim] All right, yeah, we'll have you on again.

- I'm gonna be right next to him with the tariffs.

- Yeah.

- We'll do somewhere.

Well, there's a new tariff in town, and it's Donald Trump.

He's been talking about this for years.

It's really a liberal issue, everybody forgets about that.

And the old days, Bernie Sanders and the unions wanted to protect American jobs, American unions and American industries.

Trump just wants fairness.

This is gonna take a while, it's up and down.

- [Jim] So, you are playing the long game?

- Not too long.

'cause it can't be too long.

And he's finally got where it needs to be, China, which is the big issue.

The trade imbalance with China is crazy.

It gets us cheap goods and a lot of us free traders like that, but it's cost us so many jobs.

And he just wants to get a balance on that.

And the art of the deal is working, it has some short term pain.

There's fluctuations in the stock market.

But this too shall pass, he'll get the job done.

- So, Joe, I have a question for you.

Why does he have to paint with such a broad brush?

Why not just go after China?

Why not be strategic about it?

Why do you go after our friends?

Why does it have to be always so divisive?

Can't the guy sit down and have a discussion with people?

It's always so divisive, you know?

That's what I have a high time with.

China, I got no problem with China at all.

My view is bring the tariffs in, the way they treat, between the way they treat intellectual property and everything else.

- Human rights issues, yeah.

- Human rights, everything.

That's just, to me, everything's there.

But then you start getting into places like you're fighting with the president from Ukraine.

You're fighting with England.

You're fighting with Canada.

Canada, how can you have tariffs with Canada?

- [Jim] What about the- - Well, Trump's a populist, it's America's first in a way we've never seen.

He's been like this for 30 years.

And it mean, and you saw Europe, the whole administration.

Europe has been freeloading off of us for decades, since World War II, and they don't like it.

They want Europe to pay their fair share.

On the tariffs and everything, he's getting there.

But he plays tough at first.

Vietnam comes in, not exactly our friend, but they wanna negotiate.

They're gonna try to get down to zero tariffs.

That's a big market.

He's gonna be negotiating with everybody.

Focus on China, and that's where we should be on the tariff.

- Bill.

- There isn't anybody, Joe's a courageous guy to come on here and defend Trump.

I gotta give him credit for that.

But there isn't anybody of, frankly, except for the Peter Navarro, whatever his name is, Trump's right hand advisor in D.C. who thinks these tariffs are a good idea.

- [Jim] He's a stooge.

- Yeah, he's a, that's being polite.

And you know, even Elon Musk, who I'd love to do a whole show on Elon Musk, referred to him, it's a word we don't even use anymore, frankly.

And I wanna make sure that your viewers don't think this is my word, but Elon Musk referred to Navarro as being retarded last week, if you can believe that.

These are the people that are running the, what was at one time the strongest country in the world, the United States, and people are supposed to listen to them.

These tariffs are killing people right here, including people who voted and supported Donald Trump when he said he was gonna concentrate on lowering prices, helping people with their health insurance.

None of which we now know is even on his list, nevermind a priority.

So, the damage, you know, "The Wall Street Journal" who's not exactly a fan of Democratic policies in my lifetime called it the stupidest decision and the worst trade war ever in the history of this country.

- Joe, what about the people who, look, they may, some people are in the market, some people are not.

They're just trying to live paycheck to paycheck.

And they, and I think a lot of people voted for Trump saying, I'm gonna bring prices down on day one.

We know he's a little hyperbolic, but I don't see anything addressing the economy.

Do you have to look at, okay, four months, six months, a year from now when people can't put food on the table because prices are gonna continue to go up?

- Jim, first of all, let's be clear about this trade war that left-wing press talks about Trump trade war.

We were in a war for decades, we were losing.

Every other country put giant tariffs on them.

You can't sell cars in Japan, you can't sell them in China.

Canada's got blocks.

Everywhere had blocks on us and we just stood by and said, we are gonna be better than this, we are not gonna retaliate.

Trump says, no, we are gonna retaliate.

The end game goal, as you say, four months, six months, is let's get agreements where we have a trade balance, not a trade imbalance with what all these other countries are doing us.

We want our products to be able to get to China, to get to Japan, to get to Vietnam without outrageous tariffs.

All Trump is doing is saying, no, they're gonna be reciprocal.

We are gonna fight back.

The goal is not to have tariffs permanently, although Trump does talk about this 10% thing, which is still in place, but that's a small one.

The goal is free trade at the end.

So, yes, you've gotta look out three months, six months, and a year, and to see the results on this.

Just like all of his other policies.

- You're speechless, even Marie Mancuso is speechless.

- I'm speechless.

Because the idea, and Joe is so articulate about explaining what should be, and it just doesn't happen that way.

It's all this blow up where we go in and we start with this huge fight and we bring in our friends, you know, I mean, how do you stop going after the European Union and going after Canada and what have you?

Like I said, I agree with China.

I agree on that piece because of all of the other social factors and the way that they have treated us, not only financially, but also morally, but the others, like, there's no, it's like there's no strategy.

It's just throw it all against the wall and see what happens.

- Let's talk about some other issues that have been going on.

And we've talked about this each of the last couple of weeks as- - I was enjoying beating Joe up on the time.

- You can continue to beat him up if you want.

You want a little last word on the- - Let's stay all night.

(all laughing) - You might have to do an extra on that.

- Yeah.

- As these legal cases work their way through, we all know Judge McConnell here, but there are judges all over the country, federal judges who are, I think it's eventually gonna work its way up through Appeal Court and eventually the Supreme Court.

The Trump administration has had mixed results at the Supreme Court, but you have a House speaker now saying, we should be impeaching judges just because of the, you guys are lawyers, how do you feel about that?

- I mean, there's so many bad things that have happened that we can't even get to them in one show, at least in my opinion, and that's certainly at the top of the list.

I know, you know, candidly, I know Judge McConnell and I've known him for 40 years or more, and he is a friend of mine, frankly, it's outrageous that he as well as other judges across the country who do their job, who follow the law.

Joe's a constitutional scholar more than I am, and they make decisions based on the law.

If you don't agree with them, you can certainly appeal 'em.

And if you're lucky, you can get to the Supreme Court, which Trump has loaded up with his lackeys anyway, but to start screaming that judges should be impeached just because you don't like a decision they made.

And it just goes to show the idiocy of having someone like Elon Musk lecturing people in the United States about our judicial system and what's right or wrong, and if you don't agree with somebody.

And by the way, it's not just impeaching these judges, talk to any of these judges around the country and ask them about the increase in death threats- - [Jim] Security.

- Sure.

- Threats to their family, threats to their spouses, people looking at where they live, all because of these incredible, horrible things being said about them by leaders in Washington.

- [Jim] What about that, Joe?

- Let's talk about that, that goes both ways.

Death threats, harassment is outrageous.

The number one death threat and harassment was against Chief Justice Kavanaugh, and it was because of what the left did to him, and impugning the integrity of the Supreme Court.

They asked for his impeachment, there were death threats against him.

It shouldn't happen.

The biggest problem we have now, what's outrageous are these nationwide injunctions.

It's been a problem when Republicans do it, it's now a big problem when Democrats do it.

In the first three months of the Trump administration, there have been more nationwide injunctions than in our entire history.

- But they've quickly gone to the Appeals Court.

They they move pretty quickly in the federal system.

- Correct, but it shouldn't happen in the first place.

And that's why it results in these district court judges saying you can't do anything nationwide, but Chief Justice Roberts has it right.

The remedy for that is appeals, and quick appeals, and that's what's happened.

We say mixed results with Trump, there really haven't been mixed results.

- So, how would you do it?

If a district court judge, these are all national issues they have to issue- - No, they they do not.

In fact, the house just passed a bill saying no more.

The Congress sets up the district courts, they can abolish every district court in the country if they want.

The Constitution just requires a Supreme Court.

There's no basis for nationwide injunctions on either side.

You stick with the district you're in, or the state you're in, or at most the circuit you're in, you don't impact nationwide policy, especially foreign policy with an injunction.

But you're right, the Supreme Court has stepped in, in every case they've been narrow rulings, but they've stopped the district court madness, and they'll continue to do so.

And that's what has to happen.

- Well, they've upheld, he's won and he's lost on some but.

- Yeah, let's get back to the initial question because we pivoted nicely.

You did that Mr. Republican, to the substance part of it.

Let's just get to the issue of, if you don't like something, that's why judges get life tenure because they have to make decisions sometimes that are unpopular.

And so we need to give that, the independence of the judiciary is just, it's as weaved into our constitution as the First Amendment is, that's A.

B, the second issue that's a problem is then Trump's actually going after the law firms that are representing and making arguments and ostracizing the law firms and cutting off their funding on it.

So, what does that say?

Imagine if that happened in the criminal justice side.

Listen, you know, Jim, you represent somebody who's charged with murder, you are off the list, we're not going with you anymore because you represent bad guys.

That's basically what's happening on the civil side, is law firms that were defending the rights of either side, what have you, Trump decides, I don't like the position you're taking on behalf of your clients, therefore you're not getting funding anymore, or we're gonna cut you off from any government work.

That's really scary because you have to have an independence for what we do as lawyers.

We're not marrying the people, we're defending the rights of somebody who has a legal stake in the outcome.

And it's really important to have competent, good lawyers on both sides of that.

- Is that heavy handed or is it appropriate?

- No, you gotta understand where Trump's coming from.

You have a democratic party leadership that tried to take him out, literally take him out.

Not the Democratic party, but assassination attempt.

You have them trying to take him off the ballot wrongly.

Courts went in and stepped on it, but they wanted him off on the basis of an insurrection.

You had Lawfare in New York and everywhere saying he committed fraud.

All these civil cases, all coordinated at the federal level for one reason.

He can win, we can't let him get on the ballot.

So, you look at that, you look at the law firms who participated in that, utter Lawfare, most of them completely without merit, and Trump is fighting back now and they're getting resolved.

- Except that the first one to use law firms was Trump when he needed one in New York, when he sexually assaulted that woman, and when he tried to ruin our elective system in the country, the first guy to turn to lawyers was Trump.

And let's be clear what he's done.

He's done nothing but seek revenge and retribution since he got elected against anyone who he perceives is an enemy of his, didn't support him.

Look at just within the last day or two, a guy Krebs or whatever his name is, who did an interview saying that these were fair elections, there was no fraud, nothing wrong with them, they were fantastic.

And the next, an hour later, Trump announces that the Justice Department is going to, he's instructed the Justice Department to do an investigation of this guy to see if they can charge him with some type of criminal offense.

He has gone so far overboard with corrupting the Justice Department, the FBI, the Attorney General, that, you know, Joe's a good foot soldier here, but if you had a Democratic president who had done half of the things that Donald Trump has done since he's been in office, they would be screaming all of these weasels in the Congress, these Republicans who just sit on their hands and do nothing, would be screaming for impeachments, for jail.

You know, you name it, it's ridiculous.

- Is some of it revenge?

- We did have a Democratic president who did all that.

His name is Joe Biden.

The Democrats tried to coordinate to take an elected official, an official who's running for president off the ballot.

That's outrageous, and they did it over and over and over again and persecuted Donald Trump because they didn't wanna have this election.

You had a Department of Justice hiding the Hunter Biden laptop story, which could have affected the last election.

You had Merrick Garland and a corrupt Department of Justice, and FBI, Trump is riding the ship and fixing it.

He's saying enough.

So, when Bill says, if the Democrats did this, we'd be screaming.

They did do it, we were screaming, and now Trump is fixing it.

- So, I sat here 81 days ago and I said, the election's over, we now have a president.

We now have to come together as a country and we have to move forward.

What we're seeing in the last 71 days is just the opposite.

Trump is now using the presidency of the United States for his own revenge, and that's wrong.

It's wrong.

If he was as wonderful as the Republicans say he was, he would just end the whole thing and say, let's work together, let's cross the aisles over.

Let's make some of these issues.

If there's really a big problem with the way Joe Biden ran the country, then let's sit down and try to work together.

Because you know what?

It's too important.

It's too important for the American people.

People are suffering, people are having trouble paying bills, you know?

I made my Stracciatella Soup for my mother's birthday, it cost me $6 for a dozen of eggs.

You know, that's not right.

That's not right.

So, you know, that's just one little example that I look at and I say, we need to come together as a country, the election's over.

Mr. Trump, you won.

You are President Trump.

Whether we like it or not, we need to move forward.

- Just quickly, what each of you, Bill and Joe, what would you like to see over the next 100 days?

- You know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I'd like to see Trump slow down, talk to some competent people.

Guys like Jamie Dimon on the financial side.

Others who have supported him in the past, who now completely disagree with everything he's doing, particularly as it pertains to the tariffs 'cause that's the most recent issue.

And reach out and try to talk to people.

That's the only way anything gets done, by the way, in government of, in my opinion.

- Sure.

- Whether it's in Rhode Island or on the federal level, is by some area of cooperation.

And there's, right now, there's no effort by this White House to attempt to do that.

It's basically, it's my way or the highway.

He runs rough shot over every Republican senator and Congressman and it's just not getting anywhere.

- [Jim] Next 100 days.

- Jim, Bill, and Eva, love them to death.

Come together.

Joe Biden ran rough shot, Joe Biden said it was my way or the highway and his left wing White House, when he had the Senate in the house, they were two votes away from ending the filibuster.

Republicans aren't even trying to do that.

They zoom bills through, no interest in talking to the Republicans.

- Joe, you have a doctorate in whataboutism, you can't get through a sentence without saying, well what about over here?

- Because it's hypocrisy.

- I'm talking about moving forward.

- And moving, so here's- - So, moving forward.

- Let's move forward.

Here's what I wanna see more of the same.

Flood the zone, put the Trump agenda in effect with the House, the Senate, the White House and the courts practicing law, doing what they're supposed to do with the Supreme Court.

It's wonderful the woke agenda is dead.

We're getting a new economy, we're globally fixing the ship.

Tariffs, we're fixing the ship.

Everything we're fixing the ship.

Republicans love what's going on.

That's why we can get the entire house with conservatives, moderates, and everybody Republicans saying we support Trump more of the same, Jim.

- All right, we only have a couple of minutes left, so let's make these fairly quick.

Do you have an outrage or a kudo this week?

- I have an outrage and my outrage is that our new Secretary of Defense has now taken books out of the library at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy because they are offensive for the college students.

And you know, it's one thing to start messing with K through 12 and talking about that.

But now we're taking it, he's taking it to the next step forward, and I think that's outrageous.

- Billy, what do you have?

- Outrage, Trump.

- Okay, we're gonna continue, let the, keep the train rolling here.

- I don't need to say anything else.

Trump.

- That's it?

- That's my, he's my outrage.

- [Jim] All right.

- I have the same kudos, and I'll say a little bit more.

81 days in when Eva and I sat here and you, we had no idea what was gonna happen.

I wake up every morning with a smile on my face for what he's doing.

The guy was almost shot.

He's now said, I'm gonna put in my agenda.

He's told his people, I'm going with my instinct this time.

He's got nothing to lose.

He wants to change, he got the popular vote, he's going to keep doing it on economy, worldwide stage, he's resetting the stage and he's doing it.

And it's gonna be a wonderful two years for the American people.

And I think it just has to keep continuing as- - But the risk of that is, and the founders were beautiful in this, they set up congress every two years- - Yep.

- The Senate, every six.

So, last I checked was, there's a midterm election a year and a half from now, right?

- The only thing I can, it's not really a positive thing, but everything that Joe's saying is what Trump intends to do (clears throat) make no mistake about it.

I think the result will be that there'll be a gradual revolution in this country, which will help Democrats, and it may be a long time before Republicans are in charge like they are right now- - [Jim] But 30 seconds- - But it's gonna be painful in the meantime.

- 30 seconds- - I'm gonna give you a different kudos and say, welcome to Rhode Island, Bishop Bruce.

- Oh, there we go.

- There we go.

- Very excited to have- - She's added one on when I didn't think about it.

- Very excited to have a new bishop.

- Yeah, we've had turnover, we had Gelineau for years, and Tobin and now we've had a little bit of a turnover- - Yep, yep, yep, yep- - But he seems to be here- - Bishop Penny went to Boston, and now we have Bishop Bruce, and I love his first, I've watched some of his Homilies and it's really nice and I like the way he talks and he's happy to be in Rhode Island.

- Appropriate as we're heading to Easter.

So, on this Palm Sunday weekend I like that kudo.

Folks, thank you for joining us.

Bill, good to see you, and Joe, maybe another 100 days will bring you back.

- Great.

- And Eva, if you don't catch us Friday at 7:00 or Sunday at noon, we archive all of our shows at ripbs.org/lively or wherever you get your favorite podcast.

We hope you have a great weekend and join us back here next week as "A Lively Experiment" continues.

(bright upbeat music) - [Announcer 2] "A Lively Experiment" is generously underwritten by.

- Hi, I'm John Hazen White, Jr. For over 30 years, "A Lively Experiment" has provided insight and analysis of the political issues that face Rhode Islanders.

I'm a proud supporter of this great program in Rhode Island PBS.