JIM: THIS WEEK, OUT WITH THE OLD AND IN WITH THE NEW AS DAN MICKEY MOVES UP AT THE STATEHOUSE.

RHODE ISLAND MAY BE BAILED OUT WITH A WINDFALL OF FEDERAL MONEY, BUT HOW SHOULD WE SPEND IT?

ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

MR. WHITE: FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIEMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF IMPORTANT POLITICAL ISSUES FACED BY RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. AND I AM PROUD TO SUPPORT THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

♪ JIM: JOIN US ON THE PANEL, MARK SMILEY, FORMER CHAIRMAN OF THE RHODE ISLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY, BOB AWAY AGAIN -- BOB WEYGAND AND LISA PELLUCID.

IT IS GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US -- LISA PELOSI.

IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU WITH US.

DAN MCKEE HAS BEEN SWORN IN AS THE GOVERNOR SHORTLY AFTER GINA RAIMONDO WAS SWORN IN AS COMMERCE SECRETARY.

DAN MCKEE IS SAYING THAT COVID WILL BE JOB NUMBER ONE, BUT HE HAS A VARIETY OF OTHER THINGS ON HIS PLATE.

WE WILL GET TO THAT IN A MINUTE.

LISA, LET ME START WITH YOU.

THERE HAS BEEN TALK ABOUT GINA RAIMONDO AND HER YEARS AS GOVERNOR, AND HOW WE WILL LOOK BACK ON THAT TENURE.

LISA: IF WE HAD TO GRADE HER RIGHT NOW I WOULD GIVE HER AN INCOMPLETE.

SHE RAN FOR REELECTION.

WHEN YOU RUN FOR REELECTION, IT MEANS YOU HAVE CERTAIN THINGS YOU WANT TO FINISH, BUT SHE ONLY GOT HALFWAY THROUGH HER SECOND TERM.

IF YOU LOOK BACK AT WHEN SHE STARTED, AND WHERE WE ARE TODAY, IS THE STATE BETTER OFF?

NO, IT IS NOT.

IT'S NOT ALL HER FAULT BECAUSE OF COVID, AND THE PANDEMIC, BUT WE ARE IN THE MIDST OF THE PANDEMIC AND SHE IS LEAVING.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE ITD -- AND HAS NOT BEEN THE SMOOTHEST HANDOFF TO DAN MCKEE.

WE HAVE TO LOOK BACK AT HER LEGACY.

WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING WELL AND IF SHE I LEAVING THE STATES -- IS LEAVING THE STATE IN A BETTER PLACE.

JIM: I WONDER WHAT YOUR THOUGHT IS, BOB.

IF YOU READ THE NEW YORK TIMES, SHE IS GOD'S GIFT TO GOVERNMENT.

THERE HAVE BEEN SOME BUMPS HERE YOU HAVE BEEN SOME BUMPS.

-- BUMPS.

YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE BOTH SIDES.

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

BOB: SHE REALLY DID DO A GOOD JOB ON COVID.

IT'S NOT COMPLETED, DAN MCKEE IS GOING TO FINISH THAT OFF, BUT SHE IS KNOWN AS A LEADER.

THAT'S NOT ONLY OUTSIDE THE STATE, BUT INSIDE THE STATE.

SHE AT THE BEGINNING TOOK FIRM CONTROL OF THE SITUATION.

SHE DID A GREAT JOB.

MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID SHE WAS OVERWHELMING THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, BUT SOMEBODY NEEDED TO LEAD.

IF YOU LOOK BACK AT GOVERNORS OF THE PAST, THERE HAS OFTEN BEEN A CRISIS IN THEIR ADMINISTRATION IN WHICH THEY WERE JUDGED BY, PART OF THEIR LEGACY.

BUT THIS CRISIS WAS COVID AND QUITE FRANKLY SHE DID A GOOD JOB.

I WISH SHE WAS STICKING AROUND TO COMPLETE IT, BUT I HAVE FAITH IN DAN MCKEE THAT HE WILL FINISH IT OFF.

IT'S OUR NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

IT'S AFFECTED EVERYONE FROM CHILDREN, TO BUSINESSES, TO ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

I AM PROUD OF WHAT SHE DID.

BUT I THINK IT WAS TIMING THAT PULLED HER AWAY.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE SHE CANNOT FINISH IT UP.

BUT I THINK HER LEGACY WILL BE HER RESPONSE TO COVID.

JIM: MARK, TALK ABOUT THE LAST SIX YEARS.

WHERE DO WE BEGIN?

MARK: YES.

I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH THE COVID-19 RESPONSE.

RHODE ISLAND IS ACTUALLY THE WORST STATE IN THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW.

IF THE INFECTION RATE AND DEATH RATE ARE THE BENCHMARKS, WE ARE THE WORST.

WE ARE THE ONLY STATE IN THE TOP 10 OF BOTH CATEGORIES IN THE COUNTRY.

AT ONE POINT, WE WERE THE WORST IN THE WORLD.

AND I JUST CANNOT BELIEVE THAT THIS IS THE BEST WE COULD HAVE DONE.

ANOTHER PROBLEM I HAVE WITH HER IS AFTER A YEAR OF COVID, THERE WAS NOT A VACCINATION PLAN AT ALL.

SUDDENLY, THE VACCINES STARTED SHOWING UP AND SOMEBODY WAS SUPPOSED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

WE GOT OFF TO A ROCKY START.

I WOULD LIKE TO REMIND THE VIEWERS OF A FEW THINGS.

THERE'S ALWAYS COOLER AND WARMER.

THERE WAS THE MASKLESS BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTEST, OUR ECONOMY IS NOT REALLY IN BETTER SHAPE THAN THE DAY SHE TOOK OVER, AND THAT IS JUST THE LOWLITES.

THIS 66 PAGES OF PR, THAT TYPE OF PR CAMPAIGN IS WHY HER NATIONAL VIEW -- PEOPLE ON THE NATIONAL VIEW THINK SHE IS A WONDERFUL THING FOR GOVERNMENT.

BUT IT IS ALL FANTASY.

I'M SORRY, BUT NO, I CANNOT SAY SHE HAS DONE A GREAT JOB OR HER LEGACY WILL BE LONG-TERM GREAT.

AND I HOPE THAT WE GET FOR REAL ABOUT HER LEGACY, BECAUSE I THINK THAT HER PLAN IS TO COME BACK HERE AND TAKE OVER JACK REED'S EAT -- SEAT.

JIM: PRESIDENT TRUMP TRIED TO DO THAT, TOO.

EVERYTHING WAS GREAT UNTIL COVID AND THEN EVERYTHING FELL APART.

COVID HIT.

YOU HIT THE COOLER AND WARMER, ECONOMIC FIGURES, ALL THAT.

WHAT WOULD YOUR RESPONSE BE?

BOB: THERE WAS A LOT OF MISTAKES.

THERE ARE MISTAKES IN EVERY ADMINISTRATION.

THERE WERE MISSTEPS AND I COMPLAINED ABOUT THE MANY TIMES.

I THINK THOUGH COOLER AND WARMER WAS THE BIGGEST DEBACLE, BUT I BELIEVE SHE HANLED THE ECONOMIC SITUATION THAT SHE INHERITED WHEN SHE CAME IN IN A GOOD WAY.

I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN DISAPPOINTED WITH THE WAY THAT SHE HANDLED THE PENSION PLAN WHEN SHE WAS TREASURER, EVEN BEFORE HER TIME AS GOVERNOR.

I THOUGHT IT WAS HEAVY-HANDED AND THERE WAS A BETTER WAY OF DOING IT.

THERE ISN'T ANY ADMINISTRATION THAT DOES NOT HAVE THOSE MISSTEPS, AND MARK IS RIGHT IN MANY WAYS, THERE ARE THINGS THAT DID NOT GO PERFECTLY SMOOTHLY.

BUT I THINK AS SHE WAS A WONDERFUL LEADER FOR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND AT A DIFFICULT TIME, I DO NOT AGREE WITH ALL THE THINGS SHE DID, BUT SHE DID LEAD.

AS WE TAKE A LOOK BACK AT FORMER GOVERNOR'S, GOING BACK TO JOE GARY, THEY DO NOT REMEMBER WHAT HE DID TO IMPROVE HIGHER EDUCATION, OR WHAT HE DID WITH REGARD TO THE ECONOMY, THEY REMEMBER WHAT HE DID WITH REGARD TO THE BLIZZARD OF 1978.

TAKE A WORK -- TAKE A LOOK AT EDWARD FREED, HE WENT TO JAIL BECAUSE OF PROPERTY CONVICTION.

AND TAKE A LOOK AT DONKEY CHERRY, HE -- DON KACHERI, HE'LL BE REMEMBERED FOR RESPONDING TO THE NIGHTCLUB FIRE.

THEY WILL ALSO CRITICIZE HIM FOR THE HANDLING OF --.

THAT WAS TERRIBLE.

BUT I THINK THAT WHILE SHE WILL HAVE LITTLE THINGS THAT MARK TALKED ABOUT, WHICH ARE TRUE, I THINK THE BIGGEST THING WILL BE HER FORCEFUL AND SKILLFUL WAY SHE HANDLED COVID-19.

JIM: IT IS UNFINISHED.

LISA: IT IS UNFINISHED AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

ONE WAY WE WILL HAVE TO GRADE HER IS HOW WELL SHE PREPARED DAN MCKEE TO TAKE OVER AS GOVERNOR.

WE KNEW THAT SHE WAS INTERESTED IN GOING TO WASHINGTON THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION THAT DID NOT WORK OUT, SO WE KNEW THAT SHE WANTED TO GO.

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO THINK, WHAT IS HER LASTING LEGACY IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY?

WHAT HAS SHE DONE THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE GOING FORWARD?

SHE STARTED WIND POWER.

THAT HAS NOT GONE FORWARD.

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY ECONOMIC DEVELOPER PROGRAMS PUT IN PLACE FOR WORKERS, BUT I HAVE NOT SEEN A CHANGE IN OVERALL, IN THE ECONOMY, IN TERMS OF ATTRACTING BUSINESSES.

WE KNOW SHE DID NOT HAVE A STRONG FOCUS ON SMALL BUSINESS, WHICH OTHER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR HAS HAD AND WILL CONTINUE TO HAVE.

SMALL BUSINESSES ARE THE BACKBONE OF OUR STATE.

IN TERMS OF THE ECONOMY, I DO NOT SEE WHERE SHE HAS MOVED IT FORWARD.

WE HAVE UNFINISHED BUSINESS AND EDUCATION, THE STATE TAKEOVER OF THE SCHOOLS OF PROVIDENCE, AND NEGOTIATING WITH A UNION CONTRACT, THAT AGAIN THE NEW GOVERNOR HAS TO TAKE ON.

THERE'S A LOT OF UNFINISHED BUSINESS.

I THINK WE NEED MORE YEARS TO COME BACK AND SAY, HERE IS HER LEGACY.

JIM: YOU ARE RIGHT.

THERE HAVE BEEN MANY ADMINISTRATIONS.

BOB: AS SOON AS THE PERSON LEAVES OFFICE, IT DOES NOT HAPPEN THAT WAY, IT WILL BE 10 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD BEFORE PEOPLE HAVE AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HER LEGACY IS.

I THINK THAT -- WELL, IT MAY SEEM SEXIST, BUT SHE IS THE FIRST WOMAN GOVERNOR AND I THINK THAT IS A WONDERFUL ACCOMPLISHMENT THAT SHE CAN CLAIM.

IT DOES NOT IMPROVE THE ECONOMY, EDUCATION OR HEALTH CARE, BUT I THINK THAT IS A WONDERFUL FIRST STEP IN RECOGNITION AND SHE SHOULD BE KNOWN FO RIT -- FOR IT.

BUT AS I SAID, I HAVE DISAGREED WITH HOW SHE HAS HANDLED SOME THINGS.

BUT SHE WAS A FORCEFUL LEADER.

JIM: I WILL GIVE YOU THE FINAL WORD, MARK, BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO DAN MCKEE.

MARK: ON ALL THE SUBJECTS I MENTIONED, PLUS HER HANDLING OF COVID-19, THE GROUP I AM LEAST PLEASED WITH IS THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

BOTH HOUSE AND SENATE HAVE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES VERY REASON.

SOMEBODY NEEDED TO BE ASKING THE HARD QUESTIONS, AND WE SAW WHAT SHE DID WHEN THEY STARTED GETTING HARD QUESTIONS, SHE STOPPED TAKING QUESTIONS.

THAT IS WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO THE PRESS, BUT SHE CANNOT DO THAT TO THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

QUESTIONS LIKE, WHAT IS THE SCIENCE BEHIND CLOSING A BAR AT 11:00 P.M.?

YOU CAN SIT IN A BAR FROM NOON UNTIL 11:00 P.M., THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM, NO SAFETY ISSUE THERE, BUT SOMETHING HAPPENS AT 11.

WHAT IS THE SCIENCE?

SOMEBODY NEEDED TO ASK THOSE QUESTIONS.

ANOTHER ONE IS A CHURCH COULD HAVE UP TO 50% OF CAPACITY UNTIL THAT GOES OVER 125 PEOPLE, ONCE IT IS OVER 125 YOU HAVE TO SHUT IT DOWN.

SO, A CHURCH WITH 1000 PERSON CAPACITY IS LIMITED TO 12.5%.

WHAT'S THE SCIENCE IN THAT?

MAYBE THERE IS, BUT WE HAVE NO IDEA BECAUSE THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HAS HID IN THE BASEMENT AND NOT ASKED HARD QUESTIONS, WIN THAT IS WHETHER JOB WAS SUPPOSED TO BE -- WHEN THAT IS WHAT THEIR JOB IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

WITH COVID-19, OTHER STATES HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER WITH LOSOSER RESTRICTIONS AND NOT SHUTTING DOWN THEIR BUSINESSES, YET WE ARE IN THE WORST POSITION WE COULD BE IN HAVING THE HIGHEST DEATH RATE, HAVING THE HIGHEST INFECTION RATE, PLUS WE HAVE DECIMATED OUR ECONOMY BY SHUTTING DOWN THE SMALL BUSINESSES.

WAS THAT EVER EVEN NECESSARY?

WE DO NOT KNOW.

JIM: WE MAY NOT KNOW.

I THINK WE CAN AGREE ABOUT THE GENERAL SIMILE BECAUSE WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT OFTEN.

DAN MCKEE HAS FINALLY GOTTEN HIS HANDS ON THE WHEEL.

BOB, AS A FORMER LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, YOU NEVER MOVED UP THAT STEP, BUT YOU KNOW THE DYNAMIC.

DID THE GOVERNOR REALLY PREPARE HIM?

THEY HAVE HAD AN ICY RELATIONSHIP.

I WONDER WHAT YOUR THOUGHT IS NOW AS DAN MCKEE GOES IN, WHAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM DO?

BOB: I THINK IT WAS DISAPPOINTING THE WAY THAT GINA RAIMONDO HANDLED THE TRANSFER FROM HER ADMINISTRATION TO DAN'S.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE MUCH BETTER.

IT SEEMED VERY ADVERSARIAL AND VERY DISAPPOINTING, SO I DO COULD DECIDE HER FOR THE WAY THAT SHE HANDLED THAT.

HER ADMINISTRATION WAS A TOP-DOWN KIND OF ADMINISTRATION, WHERE SHE WOULD INITIATE A POLICY OR PROGRAM AND PUT IT OUT THERE.

AND SHE WOULD PUSH IT.

DAN IS GOING TO BE MUCH DIFFERENT.

HE'S GOING TO BE MORE, YOU HAVE SEEN IT AND THEN THE LAST -- IN THE LAST 48 HOURS, IT WILL BE MORE DECENTRALIZED.

HE WANTS TO BRING THINGS TO THE COMMUNITIES.

AS A FORMER MAYOR, HE WANTS TO DO THAT.

HE HAS BROUGHT IN FORMER MAYORS AS PART OF HIS TRANSITION.

AND HE WILL GO OUT AND TRY TO COLLABORATE WITH COMMUNITIES, COMMUNITY LEADERS, AND TRY TO BUILD A COALITION OF SUPPORT FOR HIS POLICIES AND IS PROGRAMS.

AND I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING, BUT I QUESTION -- BECAUSE THAT IS A DIFFICULT THING TO DO.

WHEN YOU ARE LISTENING TO ALL THOSE VOICES, AFTER A WHILE YOU WILL DISAPPOINT SOME OF THEM BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO FOLLOW EVERYTHING THAT THOSE CITIES AND TOWNS WANT.

BUT IT IS A DIVERSIFIED ADMINISTRATION VERSUS THE GINA RAIMONDO ADMINISTRATION.

I GIVE HIM PRAISE FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE.

HE'S TRYING TO WORK WITH PEOPLE.

I CAUTION HIM THAT AT SOME POINT HE WILL HAVE TO SAY, THIS IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO.

WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

THAT WILL BE WHEN THE PROOF OF HOW STRONG A LEADER DAN MCKEE IS.

AND HOW THE PEOPLE WILL RESPOND TO HIM.

LISA: HE'S GOT SUCH A FULL PLATE AHEAD OF HIM.

I HAVE BEEN THINKING A LOT IN THE TRANSITION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WITH HARRY TRUMAN AND PRESIDENT FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT, THAT THE PRESIDENT BROUGHT HARRY TRUMAN IN, BUT KEPT HIM ASIDE.

AND MONTHS LATER, THE PRESIDENT DIED, THEN TREATMENT FINDS OUT, BY THE WAY, WE HAVE AN ATOMIC BOMB.

AND HE WAS NOT EVEN AWARE OF IT.

I FEEL LIKE GINA RAIMONDO PUT DAN MCKEE ASIDE, NOW HE IS GOVERNOR AND HE IS TAKING ON THE ENORMOUS ISSUES OF THE ECONOMY, COVID, AND PREPARING A BUDGET, WHICH RIGHT NOW HE WILL HAVE TO PRESENT TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY NEXT WEEK.

HE HAS BEEN BARELY GOVERNOR AND HE HAS TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR A GOVERNMENT -- FOR A BUDGET APPROACHING $13 MILLION -- $13 BILLION.

HE HAS SO MUCH TO FOCUS ON, YET HE HAS TO KEEP HIS EYE ON IF HE CAN GET THE VACCINE IN PEOPLE'S ARMS, WE CAN OPEN UP THE ECONOMY AND GET PEOPLE BACK TO WORK.

THAT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING TO DO RIGHT NOW.

JIM: GOOD SEGUE INTO WHAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, THE BUDGET.

IT LOOKS LIKE WITH THE FEDERAL STIMULUS BEING DISCUSSED STILL IN THE SENATE, BUT I THINK IT WILL GO THROUGH WITH THE DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY, WITH MONEY THAT WILL GO FOR POPPING UP THE STATE, LOCAL CITIES AND TOWNS.

RHODE ISLAND IS IN LINE FOR $1.5 BILLION MORE.

LASTLY, I SAT DOWN WITH THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR AND I GOT A BONUS INTERVIEW WITH HIM AND ASKED, WHAT ABOUT THIS MONEY?

FOR THE SHORT RUN, IT IS GREAT.

BUT WHAT DO YOU WANT TO SEE DONE?

>> THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS PAID ALL COVID EXPENSES AS FAR AS I CAN TELL, FOR BOTH THE STATE AND CITIES AND TOWNS.

WE HAVE A REVENUE ISSUE.

WE ARE SPENDING $500 MILLION MORE THAN WE TAKE IN ON A STRUCTURAL BASIS.

THAT HA NOT BEEN A PROBLEM BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD FEDERAL MONEY.

AND WE PROBABY WON'T HAVE A PROBLEM THIS BUDGET YEAR.

BUT IT IS ONE-TIME FUNDS THAT WE ARE GETTING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

THEY WILL NOT KEEP GIVING IT TO US.

IF YOU USE THAT MONEY TO INCREASE YOUR SPENDING ON A RECURRING BASIS, THEN YOU HAVE CREATED A BIGGER PROBLEM.

AND THERE EVENTUALLY WILL BE A RECKONING.

SO WE HAVE TO BE RESTRAINED.

THE OTHER THING IS, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE ONE-TIME MONEY?

WHAT CAN WE DO THAT IS STRATEGIC IN TERMS OF PERHAPS CHANGING THE TRAJECTORY OF OUR ECONOMY, IMPROVING THE LIVES OF RHODE ISLANDERS?

SO THINGS LIKE BROADBAND, EDUCATION, TRAINING, INVESTMENTS AND TOURISM -- SOMETHING TO MAKE US MORE OF A TOURIST DESTINATION.

MAYBE IT IS INVESTMENTS IN INFRASTRUCTURE, TECHNOLOGY AND GOVERNMENT, CAN WE MAKE THE GOVERNMENT MORE EFFICIENT?

SO THERE ARE NEEDS AND WE DO NOT WANT TO CUT SERVICES TO PEOPLE WHO DEPEND ON THEM.

BUT IT WOULD BE UNFORTUNATE IF IT JUST GOES INTO THE REGULAR SPENDING.

I DO THINK THAT TAKING THAT MONEY AND BEING STRATEGIC WITH IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

JIM: RHODE ISLAND HAS HAD A HISTORY OF USING ONE-TIME FIXES.

THE TOBACCO MONEY COMES TO MIND FROM YEARS AGO.

MARK, IF YOU ARE GOVERNOR AND THIS WAS YOUR DECISION, OR SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THE WINDFALL OF MONEY?

MARK: I WOULD NEED TO PROP UP MY SMALL BUSINESS COMMUNITY.

WE DID NOT DO THAT WITH THE FIRST ROUND OF STIMULUS, OR WE DID NOT DO IT WELL, AND MOST OF THE JOBS IN THE STATE ARE WITH SMALL BUSINESSES.

AND THEY HAVE REALLY TAKEN IT ON THE CHIN DURING THE COVID-19 CRISIS AND WE NEED TO GET THEM HELP.

SHORING UP A BUDGET THAT IS OUT OF CONTROL -- WE JUST NEED TO STOP WITH THE SPENDING.

WE DO NOT HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM, WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM.

WE HAVE HEARD THAT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND WE CONTINUE TO SPEND MORE AND MORE.

SO WE NEED TO GET MONEY TO PEOPLE WHO ARE HURTING THE MOST AND TO SEE WHERE WE CAN CUT OUR BUDGET TO BRING IT BACK INTO LINE.

JIM: THE NUMBERS CONFUSE ME BECAUSE WE WERE AT $10.4 BILLION TWO YEARS AGO.

IT WENT UP BECAUSE OF THE FEDERAL MONEY.

I WANT TO SEE WHETHER IT WILL SETTLE BACK.

SO, THE BUDGET THAT DAN MCKEE PRESENTS IN THE NEXT COUPLE WEEKS -- DOES THAT SETTLE BACK INTO THE $11 BILLION RANGE, BECAUSE IT IS UNSUSTAINABLE?

WASN'T THE $13 BILLION AN OUTLIER LAST YEAR?

BOB: WE THOUGHT SO.

IT'S CONFUSING THE WAY IT IS BEING HANDLED.

$12.7 BILLION IS THE NUMBER.

AND IT HAS INCREASED TREMENDOUSLY.

MARK IS CORRECT IN THAT WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL WHERE WE ARE SPENDING THE MONEY, WE CANNOT JUST PUT IT IN AS A FILLER WITHOUT ANTICIPATING FUTURE REVENUE COMING IN.

SO YOU NEED TO INVEST IT IN SMALL BUSINESSES AND IN JOBS THAT WILL GROW.

YOU NEED TO INVEST IT INTO PARTS OF THE ECONOMY THAT WILL GENERATE MORE TAX REVENUE.

OTHERWISE, NEXT YEAR WE WILL HAVE TO CUT VARIOUS PROGRAMS OR RAISE TAXES, WHICH WE DO NOT WANT TO DO.

SO, IT REALLY HAS TO BE SMARTLY INVESTED.

I SAT ON THE BUDGET COMMITTEE WHEN I WAS A MEMBER OF THE HOUSE, AND IT WAS ALWAYS A BIG FIGHT.

CONGRESS HAS THE ABILITY TO DEFICIT SPEND.

THEY CAN PUT MONEY OUT THERE AND BE IN DEBT.

THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND CANNOT DO THAT, THE STATE HAS TO BALANCE ITS BUDGET.

IF THEY ARE USING FEDERAL MONEY TO JUST FILL THE GAP THIS YEAR, IT WILL BE A BIGGER GAP NEXT YEAR.

SO BOTH MARK AND MIKE ARE CORRECT.

LISA: LET ME SAY SOMETHING OUT-OF-THE-BOX, AND MAYBE IT IS OUTRAGEOUS, BUT WHAT ABOUT USING THE MONEY FOR SOME OF THE BOND ISSUES?

INSTEAD OF GOING OUT TO BOND ON THE TRANSPORTATION COMMAND THE STATE MATCH THAT THE STATE HAS TO PROVIDE TO GET FEDERAL FUNDS, WHAT IF WE TAKE IT OUT OF THE MONEY COMING FROM WASHINGTON SO WE DO NOT NEED TO PAY 20 YEARS OF INTEREST ON A BOND FOR TRANSPORTATION, OR 20 YEARS OF INTEREST FOR TRINITY OR ANY OF THE OTHER ARTS PROGRAMS THAT GOT APPROVED THIS WEEK WITH THE BOND ISSUES?

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IS A BUDGET THAT WOULD PUT ASIDE, THAT WOULD CLEAR -- WOULD BE CLEAR AND TRANSPARENT ASSAY, THIS IS OUR BUDGET -- TO SAY, THIS IS OUR BUDGET, THIS IS THE STIMULUS, AND LET SEE THE SEPARATION OF MONEY SO WE CAN UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING WHERE.

MARK: YOU CAN BE SURE THAT THE FEDERAL GUIDELINES FOR THE MONEY COMING IN ALLOWS FOR THAT, IT CAN BE USED TO MATCH FEDERAL MONEY.

BOB: BUT WE ALL REMEMBER THE GOVERNOR DOES NOT HAVE TO SPEND ALL OF THE $400 MILLION APPROVED.

YOU CAN HOLD BACK.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO SPEND THE MONEY.

YOU CAN LOOK AT IT AS A WAY OF CURTAILING THE GREAT APPETITE WE HAVE FOR SPENDING BY NOT USING SOME OF THAT BOND MONEY THAT WAS APPROVED.

SO, IF WE ONLY USED $280 MILLION RATHER THAN THE $400 MILLION, THAT WOULD REDUCE OUR DEFICIT AND REQUIREMENT, WITH REGARD TO THE INTERES WE HAVE TO PAY.

THERE ARE WAYS OF HANDLING THIS, BUT I THINK WE ARE SAYING THE SAME THING -- THIS IS A ONE-TIME ONLY.

WE CANNOT USE IT JUST TO FILL THE GAP, BECAUSE NEXT YEAR THAT GAP WILL BE BIGGER.

JIM: WHAT STRUCK ME IS WHAT MIKE SAID ABOUT A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT OF $500 MILLION.

THESE WERE RELATIVELY GOOD TIMES.

NOW, I REALIZE THE ECONOMY -- I THINK THE ECONOMY WILL ROAR BACK, BUT THE GOOD THAT, A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT AND WE ARE IN PRETTY GOOD ECONOMIC TIMES.

OR WE WERE A YEAR AGO.

MARK: THE HOUSE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THE SAME THING FOR A COUPLE YEARS NOW.

IF WE ARE RUNNING THESE STRUCTURAL DEFICITS IN THE GOOD TIMES, WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE BAD TIMES?

WE ARE SEEING IT.

REVENUE IS DOWN.

IT WILL CONTINUE TO STAY TEPID AT BEST FOR QUITE A FEW MORE MONTHS.

AND WE JUST CONTINUE TO INCREASE OUR BUDGET ANYWAY.

SO, WE HAVE GOT TO DO BETTER THAN THIS.

WE NEED TO START LISTENING TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE SCREAMING BLOODY MURDER THAT WE CANNOT DO THIS IN THE GOOD TIMES, BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BAD TIMES?

WELL, HERE WE ARE.

JIM: WE ONLY HAVE ABOUT THREE OR FOUR MINUTES LEFT, SO LET'S DO OUTRAGEOUS OR KUDOS.

LISA?

LISA: THREE YEARS AGO WE STARTED HEARING OF A MOVEMENT CALLED THE #METOO MOVEMENT.

THESE WERE WOMEN STARTING TO SPEAK OUT ABOUT BAD BEHAVIOR THAT THEY HAD WITNESSED AND VICTIMS TO.YEARS LATER, YOU WOULD THINK MEN IN POWER WOULD BE COGNIZANT OF THE BEHAVIOR THEY HAVE WITH THEIR FEMALE WORKERS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN WHO ARE SUBORDINATE TO THEM, YET HERE WE GO AGAIN, THIS TIME WITH THE GOVERNOR OF NEW YORK WITH NOW THREE WOMEN COMING FORWARD WITH ALLEGATIONS OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT.

NOT ONLY IS HIS BEHAVIOR INAPPROPRIATE, HE COMES FORWARD WITH AN APOLOGY THAT DOES NOT TAKE HIS BEHAVIOR INTO ACCOUNT.

I AM OUTRAGED AS A WOMAN THAT HERE WE ARE EXPERIENCING STILL THIS BEHAVIOR.

JIM: AND HE WAS TALKED ABOUT BEING POTENTIALLY ON THE TICKET, SO IT IS AMAZING HOW THINGS CHANGE.

AN YOUD KNOW, BECAUSE ALL OF A SUDDEN THREE OR FOUR MORE WOMEN COME OUT, IT IS NOT A BIG CONSPIRACY NOW THAT THAT DAM HAS BEEN OPENED.

BOB COME OUTRAGED OR -- BOB, OUTRAGE OR KUDO?

BOB: AS OF THIS MORNING, THE NATIONAL GUARD IS GEARING UP FOR A POTENTIAL ANOTHER ASSAULT ON THE CAPITOL BUILDING.

I DO NOT THINK IT WILL HAPPEN BECAUSE THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH PUBLICITY ON IT, SO IT WAS A GOOD THING FOR THE PUBLICITY.

BUT WHAT IS BOTHERSOME IS WE HAVE A DEEP DIVIDE IN THIS COUNTRY.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO TO DEAL WITH.

WE CAN NO LONGER BE FIGHTING ON THE FAR ENDS WITH EACH OTHER.

WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER IN A WAY THAT IS REALISTIC, THAT IS HELPFUL TO ALL PEOPLE, AND NOT ANTAGONIZING THE LEFT AND RIGHT AND MAKING EVERYTHING SO TERRIBLE.

JOE BIDEN IS CORRECT, WE NEED TO GOVERN FOR ALL OF AMERICA, NOT JUST THE LEFT OR RIGHT.

WHEN I HEARD THIS THE OTHER DAY, I SAID, WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THIS COUNTRY?

OUR DEMOCRACY IS IN PERIL.

HOW CAN WE PULL THINGS TOGETHER?

HOW CAN WE MAKE THINGS BETTER FOR ALL PEOPLE, NOT JUST FOR ONE SECTOR?

IT'S OUTRAGEOUS THAT THIS IS STILL GOING ON.

JIM: MARK, FINAL MINUTE.

MARK: GOING BACK TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A SENATOR FROM OF STATEHOUSE, WHO DID NOT KNOW THE SENATE HAS AN OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE.

WHEN I POINTED OUT THE NAME OF THE RULES, ETHICS AND OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, HE HAD NEVER HEARD IT THAT WAY, AND LOW AND BEHOLD HE IS A MEMBER OF IT.

JIM: [LAUGHTER] MARK: HE DID NOT KNOW THERE WAS AN OVERSIGHT FUNCTION.

THEY ARE RELYING ON THE HOUSE TO DO THAT, WHICH THE SPEAKER KEEPS HIS THUMB ON THE SCALE AT ALL TIMES WITH THE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE.

WE NEED TO GET BACK TO OUR GOVERNMENT FUNCTIONING THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO.

THAT'S MY OUTRAGE FOR THE WEEK.

JIM: MARK, LISA, BOB, THANK YOU.

THIS IS NOT ALL.

IF YOU WANT TO KEEP THE CONVERSATION GOING, WE WILL GO TO OUR ONLINE BONUS SEGMENT.

GO TO OUR WEBSITE RIGHT NOW.

YOU WILL GET AN EXTRA 10 MINUTES AND WE WILL TALK NATIONAL POLITICS.

IF YOU DO NOT CATCH US ON FRIDAY NIGHT OR SUNDAY AT NOON, WE ARE ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA, SO CHECK OUT FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

IF YOU DO NOT CATCH OUR MAIN EPISODES, GO TO THE WEBSITE AND ALL OF OUR EPISODES ARE HOUSED THERE.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND NEXT WEEK.

WE WILL HAVE IT COVERED.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT."

CONTINUES.

♪ ANNOUNCER: "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

MR. WHITE: FOR MORE THAN 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIEMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF