A Lively Experiment 3/3/2023

>> THIS WAKE ON LIVELY EXPERIMENT, THE CHOCKING CONTINUES TO SEE WHO WILL REPLACE DAVID CICILLINE AND I CONGRESS.

SHOULD THE NONPROFITS AND PROVIDENCE BECAUSE TRIPPING MORE TO HELP OFFSET CITY SERVICES?

WE SIT DOWN WITH THE MAYOR FOR HIS THOUGHTS.

>> LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JOHN HAZEN, JR..

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> JOINING US, STEVE PRIUS, NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN -- STEVE FRY IS, FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE DOREEN COSTA, AND POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR SCOTT MACKAY.

WELCOME AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS WEEK.

I AM JIM HUMMEL.

THE LIST OF WHO MIGHT REPLACE CONGRESSMAN DAVID CICILLINE THIS YEAR IS GROWING BUT WHO HAS A REALISTIC CHANCE OF PUTTING TOGETHER A WINNING CAMPAIGN?

WITH SUCH A COMPRESSED CAMPAIGN SCHEDULE, TWO THINGS WILL BE CRITICAL.

NAME RECOGNITION AND MONEY.

WITHIN A MATTER OF MONTHS, THAT SHOULD SEPARATE THE DREAMERS FROM THE CONTENDERS.

SCOTT, GIVE SEEN A FEW CAMPAIGNS OVER THE YEARS.

FIRST OF ALL, CICILLINE LEAVING.

WE HAVE HAD 10 DAYS TO DIE TO -- TO DIGEST IT.

IS IT A SURPRISE?

>> I THINK HE DID NOT WANT TO BE A LIFER.

I ALSO THINK LOSING, FRANKLY, TO REPRESENT OF KATHERINE CLARK, LEADERSHIP POSITION, HE SAW HIMSELF AT 61 NOW IN THE MINORITY.

HE KIND OF SAD, YOU KNOW, AND MY GOING TO BE HERE FOR 10 YEARS BEFORE HAVE ANY POWER?

BEING IN THE MINORITY IN THE HOUSE IS NOT LIKE BEING IN THE MINORITY IN THE SENATE.

YOU CAN'’T REALLY GET ANYTHING DONE.

YOU ARE REALLY AT THE BEHEST OF THE PARTY THAT CONTROLS THE HOUSE.

EVEN THE REPUBLICANS CONTROL IT NARROWLY, THEY STILL CONTROL IT.

THE FASCINATING THING ABOUT THE SELECTION, IF WE LOOK AT IT, IS GOING TO BE THE FIELDWORK.

IT IS GOING TO BE AN OFF CYCLE LOW TURNOUT ELECTION I THINK.

STEVE ANDY REID HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND WILL AGREE WITH ME.

-- STEVE AND DOREEN HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS PROCESS AND WILL AGREE WITH ME.

JUST A FEW VOTES CAN GET YOUR NOMINATION.

IT IS FASCINATING TO ME YOU COULD BE IN CONGRESS WITH SUCH A SMALL NUMBER OF PEOPLE.

SO IT IS GOING TO BE THE PEOPLE WHO YOU LOOK AT OUR WHO CAN TURN THE VOTES OUT.

>> WHO IS AT THE TOP OF YOUR LIST?

>> I THINK GAVE AMO.

THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR I THINK IS ALSO LOOKING AT IT SERIOUSLY.

THERE IS TALK OF HELENA FOULKES WHO DID REALLY WELL IN THE PRIMARY.

THE REPUBLICANS?

I THINK IF THEY COULD CLONE A RON MADELEY TYPE, REMODELER -- MODERATE REPUBLICAN, THEY WOULD HAVE A SHOT.

IT IS AN OFF HERE AND TURNOUT WILL BE LOW.

THERE'’S A LOT OF NATIONAL MONEY.

CONGRESS IS SO CLOSE.

IF YOU COULD GET ONE REPUBLICAN -- >> I'’M NOT SURE THERE'’S GOING TO BE A LOT OF REPUBLICAN MONEY.

ANY NAMES COME TO MIND?

>> A MISS, NEVER HEARD OF IT.

SABINA.

HELENA FOULKES IS BUYING HOUSE AND HE SIGHED.

THAT SHOULD -- THAT SHOULD PUT RED FLAGS EVERYWHERE.

SHE IS RUNNING.

YOU CANNOT TELL ME SHE IS NOT RUNNING.

I WOULD BET THE HOUSE ON THIS.

ALSO YOU'’RE LOOKING AT ALAN WATERS WHO IS GIVING IT ANOTHER TRY.

ALAN WATERS IS A REPUBLICAN -- >> HE WAS ONE OF YOURS.

>> HE IS A REPUBLICAN BUT MORE LIKE A BLUE DOG DEMOCRAT.

HE IS NOT ALWAYS TO THE LEFT OR TO THE RIGHT.

HE IS IN THE MIDDLE.

IF HE CAN TURN -- I CAN'’T BELIEVE I'’M GOING TO SAY THIS -- THE FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER AGREED WITH SCOTT, IT IS GOING TO BE AN EXTREMELY LOW TURNOUT AND A GET OUT THE VOTE.

>> WITH DAVID CICILLINE, IT IS SOMEWHAT OF A SURPRISE.

NOT THAT MUCH OF THE SUPRISE THAT HE LEFT, WAS BASICALLY BOXED OUT OF LEADERSHIP.

>> CHALLENGING CLYBURN WAS BIG.

MISJUDGMENT.

>> THAT WAS A BAD, BAD MOVE.

WHEN HE DECIDED TO TAKE ON CLYBURN, HE BASICALLY MISCALCULATED SO BADLY I THINK HE DECIDED HE WAS DONE.

IN REGARDS TO THE RACE, SPECIAL ELECTION TURNOUT, THIS IS VERY LOW ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE.

SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 30000 AND 40,000 PEOPLE BASED ON PAST TURNOUT.

GENERAL ELECTION, 100,000 MAY BE IN THAT SEAT.

NAME ID, HELENA FOULKES IF SHE WANTS TO GET IN, SHE SPENT MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

SHE HAS A LOT OF NAME ID.

>> SHE DOESN'’T HAVE TO DO A LOT OF FUNDRAISING.

>> I THINK THE PROBLEM FOR HER GETTING IN, SHE SEES HER SOPHOMORE AS A JUNIOR EXECUTIVE.

>> 435 LITERALLY.

>> I DON'’T SEE THAT SOMETIMES.

ANOTHER NAME, JOSEPH CATCHY.

HE IS MORE POWERFUL AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE.

HE WILL BE A BACKBENCHER IN A CONGRESS.

THIS IS A RACE IF YOU HAVE A STRONG BASE SUPPORT, WHOEVER GETS LABOR '’S ENDORSEMENT, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY WOULD HAVE AN INSIDE TRACK.

YOU'’RE TALKING ABOUT A LOW TURNOUT.

7000, 8000 VOTES COULD BE ENOUGH TO WIN AND IN A GENERAL ELECTION, TALKING ABOUT MODERATE REPUBLICAN COULD CATCH FIRE.

BUT IT IS A LONG SHOT.

A LOT OF THINGS HAVE TO COME TOGETHER.

>> AND JOE HAS OVER $1 MILLION.

>> ALMOST JULIAN DOLLARS.

>>-- ALMOST JULIAN $2 MILLION.

>> THE NEXT SPEAKER WOULD BE CHRIS BLAZEJEWSKI.

HE IS MORE TO THE LEFT.

WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL WHO WE PUT IN FOR SPEAKER IF THIS DOES HAPPEN.

IT IS GOING TO BE A CATFIGHT IF JOE JUMPS INTO THE RACE.

>> YEARS AGO, WHEN BOB HAD TO MOVE FROM EAST PROVIDENCE.

NOW NOBODY IS SAYING JOE LIVES IN CD2.

I KNOW TECHNICALLY YOU DON'’T HAVE TO LIVE IN THE STREET BUT WHAT ABOUT THE OPTICS IF YOU WERE TO RUN?

>> I DON'’T THINK IT LOOKS SO GREAT.

FOLKS, SHE PRETTY MUCH GREW UP ON THE EAST SIDE OF PROVIDENCE.

I THINK TO STEVE'’S POINT, HERE SOMEBODY WHO IS LOOKING AT EXECUTIVE JOB, BIG JOB.

IF YOU GO TO CONGRESS, YOU'’RE GOING HAVE A TINY LITTLE OFFICE IN THE BASEMENT.

YOU'’RE IN THE OPPOSITION PARTY.

UNLESS SHE WANTS TO DO THIS FOR THE LONG TERM, I THINK CICILLINE SAW THIS, WHERE YOU HAVE TWO SENATORS WHO SHOW NO LOOK LIKE THEY'’RE GOING -- >> YOU THINK REID IS GOING TO RUN IN 2026?

>> I THINK HE WILL LEAVE LIKE TED KENNEDY, TOES UP.

>> I COULD SEE JACK REED WANTING TO TIE THAT.

>> HE IS IN A POWERFUL POSITION.

HE IS HEAD OF THE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE.

HE COULD HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT SECRETARY HAD HE WANTED.

NO, HE OPTED TO STAY IN CONGRESS.

>> REAL QUICK, YOU DID SAY SOMETHING ABOUT MOVING THE OPTICS.

TO FORGET SETH MAGAZINER MOVED.

>> ABOUT 100 YARDS.

>> IT DOESN'’T MATTER.

HE STILL IN THE DISTRICT.

>> HE IS A WEST BAY GUY.

>> I THINK ALSO A STATEWIDE FILE.

HE HAD MINORITY -- >> I AGREE.

IT MAY BE FLATTERING BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHO WOULD WANT TO GIVE UP?

IF YOU'’RE REALLY RUNNING THE SHOW AS SPEAKER.

WHAT ABOUT REPUBLICAN DIED?

IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE A SACRIFICIAL RACE.

>> UNLESS YOU CAN RAISE THE MONEY UP IT YOURSELF MORE IN THE CENTER, IT IS GOING TO GET TOUGH RACE.

THIS DISTRICT WAS CARRIED BY JOE BIDEN BY 29 POINTS.

THIS IS DIFFICULT EVEN IN THE BEST OF CIRCUMSTANCES.

YOU HAVE NAMES LIKE AARON TALKING ABOUT DOING IT.

REPUBLICANS TO SUCCEED, IT IS GOING TO TAKE A MORE CENTRIST CANDIDATE.

DEMOCRATS -- THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE HAS TO BE PRETTY FLAWED.

>> SCOTTY, IT SEEMS LIKE -- THE NATIONAL MONEY OF COURSE, THE HOUSE WAS AT STAKE.

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU COULD MAYBE DO IT FOR UNDER $1 MILLION?

>> I DO THINK THOUGH YOU'’RE GOING TO NEED A LITTLE BIT OF TV JUST TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO THE VOTERS AND GET YOUR MESSAGE OUT.

YOU NEED -- >> ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE GABE.

>> SOMEBODY WITH A BASE IN THE EAST BAY WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE THE BEST CANDIDATE.

IT YES, COULD PROBABLY -- IF YOU CAN'’T RAISE $500,000, DON'’T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT.

>> AND THOSE OF THE PHONE CALLS GOING ON NOW I AM SURE.

THE MONEY TALKS.

>> WHEN YOU WANT TO STEP UP AND RUN FOR OFFICE, IT IS CALLED DIALING FOR DOLLARS.

HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS AND YOU CALL PEOPLE FOR MONEY.

IT IS THE WORST PART.

FUNDRAISING IS THE WORST PART OF BEING IN POLITICS.

ESPECIALLY ON A CONGRESSIONAL LEVEL.

WHOEVER IS RUNNING IS ALREADY ON THE PHONE.

>> YOU HAVE TO BE AS AGGRESSIVE -- DUE TO RAMONDA WAS KNOWN AS A STAR -- GINA RAIMONDO WAS KNOWN AS A STAR FUNDRAISER.

YOU NEED TO BE OUT THERE.

YOU ALSO NEED TO PICK GOOD STEPS.

SOMEBODY ASKED ME WHO IS GOING TO WIN THIS AND I SAID, WHOEVER HIRES KATIE WHO RAN SETH'’S CAMPAIGN.

THE GROUND GAME IS GOING TO BE VERY IMPORTANT.

TO STEVE'’S POINT, WITH A LOW TURNOUT, YOU KNOW, OFF HERE AND NOTHING ELSE TO PUSH IT, NO MAYORS AND A PRESIDENTIAL, NO GOVERNOR -- NOTHING ELSE TO PUSH THIS PRIMARY, THAT MEANS YOU HAVE GOT TO GET YOUR PEOPLE -- THE OTHER THING IS, IT IS NOT JUST AIMED AT ELECTION DAY.

YOU'’RE GOING TO HAVE 20 DAYS OF EARLY VOTING.

THE MAIL HAS ALWAYS BEEN IMPORTANT.

>> POTENTIALLY COULD ROLL OUT IN THE SUMMERTIME.

YOU WOULD BE PATROLLING SCARBOROUGH WITH YOUR LEAFLET.

>> YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE.

>> LET'’S MOVE ON.

>> BALLA BOXES AT THE LIFEGUARD STATION.

>> THE CITY OF PROVIDENCE IS ALWAYS FACING FINANCIAL CHALLENGES.

MAYOR SMILEY WAS TO GO BACK TO THE NONPROFITS, THE COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES AND BIG HOSPITALS TO GET THEM TO SQUEEZE OUT A LITTLE MORE.

IT IS CALLED PAYMENT IN LIEU OF TAXES.

BASICALLY, TO HELP CONTRIBUTE AS HE SAYS 40% OF THE TAX BASE IS TAX-EXEMPT.

I SAT DOWN WITH HIM LAST WEEK.

HERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF WHAT HE TOLD ME.

>> YOUR GARBAGE PICKUP, POLICE PROTECTION, FIRE SERVICE, STREETS AND SIDEWALKS, STILL REMOVAL -- THAT IS ALL FUNDED BY PROPERTY TAXES.

WELL OVER 40% OF THE LAND IN PROVIDENCE IS TAX-EXEMPT WHICH MEANS 60% OF THE PEOPLE ARE PAYING 100% OF THE BILLS.

THAT NEVER GETS WORSE EVERY YEAR.

>> THE DISCUSSION ABOUT NONPROFITS CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE CITY SERVICES, THAT IS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES.

YOU ARE PUTTING THIS ON THE FRONT BURNER.

>> THIS IS THE YEAR.

IT HAS BEEN DECADES.

EXACTLY 20 YEARS.

MAYOR CICILLINE NEGOTIATED THE FIRST PAYMENT FOR PAYMENTS IN LIEU OF TAXES WITH THE PRIVATE COLLEGES IN 2003.

THAT WAS A 20 YEAR AGREEMENT AND HAS FINALLY EXPIRED.

>> INSTITUTIONS OF HIGHER LEARNING, DO YOU LOOK AT THEM AS WHOLE OR TREAT INDIVIDUALLY?

>> THEY DECIDED AMONGST THEMSELVES THEY'’RE GOING TO NEGOTIATE AS A GROUP.

WE ARE GOING TO AGREE ON A TOTAL NUMBER AND THEY WILL MAKE PAYMENTS PROPORTIONAL TO THEIR INSTITUTION SIZE.

SO BROWN WILL PAY THE MAJORITY OF WHATEVER PAYMENT IS ULTIMATELY AGREED TO.

I AM NOT ANTAGONISTIC TOWARDS THESE INSTITUTIONS.

THEY ARE IMPORTANT TO OUR ECONOMY AS A WHOLE.

I DON'’T NECESSARILY BEGRUDGE THEM WANTING TO CONTROL THEIR FUTURE GROWTH.

BUT IF THEY WANT TO BUY A BUILDING BECAUSE THEY THINK IT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE THEY MAY WANT TO USE IT FOR INSTITUTIONAL USE, THEY NEED TO KEEP PAYING TAXES ON IT UNTIL SUCH TIME THEY DO USE IT FOR INSTITUTIONAL USE.

THAT IS A PIECE OF LEGISLATION WE HAVE FILED WITH THE STATE THAT I TOLD THE COLLEGES AND HOSPITALS WE HAVE FILED AND HOPE THEY WILL NOT FIGHT.

>> STEVE, SOME OF HIS PREDECESSORS HAVE TRIED TO USE THE CARROT AND SOME OF USED THE STICK.

CLEARLY, THEY WANT TO COME FORWARD.

IT DEPENDS ON THE NUMBER.

HE IS GOING THE NEGOTIATED ROUTE RIGHT NOW AND IT MAKES SENSE I THINK.

>> HE HAS TO TRY TO DO SOMETHING.

THIS ISSUE HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR DECADES.

IN 1990, THIS WAS A MAJOR ISSUE.

>> MORE IN TAXES THAN BROWN UNIVERSITY ITSELF.

>> I TEND TO AGREE WITH MAYOR SMILEY ON THE POINT WHICH IS WE MAKE YOU NONPROFIT, WE GIVE YOU TAX-EXEMPT STATUS BECAUSE YOU'’RE PROVIDING A SERVICE TO THE PUBLIC LIKE EDUCATION.

BUT WHEN YOU ARE USING PROPERTIES FOR FOR-PROFIT, YOU ARE ACTING LIKE A COMMERCIAL LANDLORD, YOU SHOULD BE TREATED LIKE OTHER COMMERCIAL LANDLORDS AND YOU SHOULD PAY YOUR SHARE.

THE ONLY CAUTION I WOULD GIVE MAYOR SMILEY ABOUT THIS IS WE ARE TRYING TO DEVELOP A CONCEPT HERE IN PROVIDENCE WHERE WE HAVE EDUCATION, MEDICAL FACILITIES CAN'’T BECOME A DEVELOPMENT SO YOU DON'’T WANT TO KILL THE GOOSE THAT LAYS THE GOLDEN EGG SO TO SPEAK BY GOING TOO FAR AGAINST THEM.

LOOK AT WHAT COMMUNITIES DO.

BUT I THINK HE HAS A VALID POINT WHICH IS IF YOU ARE I THE COMMERCIAL LANDLORD BUSINESS, YOU SHOULD BE TAXED.

>> WHAT YOU DID NOT SEE AN INTERVIEW -- BY THE WAY, CAN WATCH THE FULL INTERVIEW ON OUR RHODE ISLAND PBS CHANNEL.

WE SPOKE FOR ABOUT 15, 20 MINUTES.

WHAT HE DID NOT REFERENCE OR REFERENCE IN THE FULL ONE, RHODE ISLAND HOSPITAL, YOU MAY HAVE A PHYSICIAN'’S OFFICE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE PAYING TAXES.

>> MY THING, I AGREE WITH MAYOR SMILEY WANTING TO DO THAT.

HOWEVER, WHAT IS HE GOING TO DO WITH THE MONEY?

HE TALKED ABOUT POLICE AND FIRE AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

THE LAST TIME I WENT TO PROVIDENCE IN OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER -- CLOSE YOU DON'’T GET OUT MUCH.

>> I AVOID PROVIDENCE LIKE THE PLAGUE.

THE SIDEWALKS OR KREMLIN.

THERE ARE POTHOLES EVERYWHERE.

-- THE SIDEWALKS ARE CRUMBLING.

THERE ARE POTHOLES EVERYWHERE.

I AVOID PROVIDENCE.

IF HE DOES GET THIS MONEY, WHAT HE HAS TO DO IS EVERYTHING SHOULD BE ITEMIZED SO TAXPAYERS SEE WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING THE WORST SCHOOL SYSTEM IN THE STATE THE ROADS ARE CRUMBLING.

I WILL PROBABLY NOT GO BACK TO PROVIDENCE UNLESS I EXTREMELY HAVE TO.

NOT -- COMMON WERE SHOOTINGS DO WE HAVE?

>> PUT DOREEN IN A STRAITJACKET.

>> WE HAD SHOOTINGS IN THE LAST TWO WEEKS?

>> YOU SOUND BULLISH.

>> PROVE ME WRONG.

>> I THINK THE EAST SIDE OF PROVIDENCE IS THE BEST AND MOST ACCESSIBLE RESIDENTIAL URBAN DISTRICT BETWEEN THE BACK BAY AND GEORGETOWN, FRANKLY.

I ALSO THINK YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT CRIME.

SHOOTINGS AND MURDERS ARE WAY DOWN FROM WHAT THEY WERE 20, 25 YEARS AGO.

>> WE HAD TWO IN THREE WEEKS.

>> THE NUMBERS WILL TELL YOU IN THE PAST, THE STUFF GOING ON AT THE MALL, THE CARJACKING, SOME OF THAT STUFF.

>> I HATE TO SAY THIS, I THINK A LOT OF IT IS TELEVISION NEWS, FRANKLY, HYPING THIS UP.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS BACK IN THE EARLY 1990'’S, THERE WERE 30 SHOOTINGS A YEAR.

STEVE AND I BOTH WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER LIVED ON THE EAST SIDE OF PROVIDENCE AND IT WAS A GOOD RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOOD.

I GET WITH THE MAYOR IS TRYING TO DO.

LET'’S LOOK AT THE POLITICS OF THIS.

OF COURSE IN A CITY WITH A LOT OF STRUGGLING TAXPAYERS, THEN LOOK AT THE BROWNS AND THE KIDS WITH THE NEW YORK PLATES AND THE BMWS AND THEY THINK, LOOK, WE ARE PAYING TOO MUCH IN OUR TAXES AND LOOK AT THESE BIG INSTITUTIONS.

THEY HAVE PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD.

THEY ARE WEALTHY.

THEY CAN CONTRIBUTE.

I THINK THOSE FOLKS MAY PROVIDENCE WANT TO SEE A MAYOR WHO IS AT LEAST TRYING TO GET OUT THERE AND GET MORE MONEY FROM THE NONPROFITS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, STEVE HAS A POINT.

YOU CAN'’T KILL THE SITUATION WITH RIDICULOUS AMOUNT OF TAXES.

>> I DON'’T THINK HE IS TRYING TO DO THAT.

IT IS AIMED AT LAND BANKING.

JOHNSON AND WALES HAS A STARBUCKS ON THAT CORNER OF CHESTNUT STREET.

THAT IS TAX-EXEMPT.

YEARS AGO THEY SAID IT WAS BECAUSE STUDENTS WORK THERE.

A LOT OF STUDENTS WORK AT A LOT OF PLACES.

pIT ADDS UP A LITTLE AT A TIME.

>> I DON'’T THINK IT IS MAYOR SMILEY WRONG YOU SHOULD NOT BE TAXED LIKE A COMMERCIAL LANDLORD.

I THINK DOREEN'’S POINT, WE GIVE YOU MORE MONEY, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH IT?

FINANCIAL MISMANAGEMENT OF THE CITY OVER THE LONG HAUL IS QUITE A PROBLEM.

THAT IS WHAT PEOPLE SAY, I GIVE YOU MORE MONEY AND YOU WASTE IT.

>> SOME OF THIS HE INHERITED.

YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM PROVIDENCE HAS, WHICH IS THIS EXISTENTIAL THREAT OF THE RIDICULOUS PENSION SYSTEM.

THAT COMES FROM THE C AND C. >> FROM THE GRAVE.

>> THAT WAS A LEGACY OF THE MASTER OF USING THE TAXPAYERS TO BUY VOTES BY GIVING THE UNITS WHAT THEY WANTED.

>> TO HIS CREDIT THERE WAS I, WE ARE RUNNING A SURPLUS.

BILLION-DOLLAR PENSION LIABILITY THEY NEVER SAW.

JUST TO REITERATE, YOU CAN WATCH MY ENTIRE DISCUSSION WITH MAYOR SMILEY ON OUR YOUTUBE PAGE.

THE OTHER THING THAT CAME UP THIS WEEK, THIS IS ONCE A DECADE DISCUSSION AND IT IS ALWAYS THEORETICAL BUT WOULD BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF IT GETS TO A PRACTICAL, FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE.

DOES BEGIN WITH THE PERSON WHO SAT IN THAT CHAMBER FOR YEARS.

>> SIX YEARS.

>> IT ONLY SEEMS LIKE 20.

>> I HAVE SAID THIS FROM WHEN I RAN AND I WILL SAY IT NOW, WE DO NOT NEED 75 LEGISLATORS.

WE HAVE 39 CITIES AND TOWNS.

WE COULD HAVE 39 LEGISLATORS REPRESENTING EACH CITY AND TOWN.

THERE IS NO REASON FOR 75.

YOU CUT DOWN TO 39 AND MAKE THAT FULL-TIME IN THE STATE WILL SAVE MONEY.

WELL, IT WILL BE A LOT OF WORK.

CENTRAL FALLS.

YOU CAN DRIVE THAT IN TWO MINUTES.

YOU CAN'’T REPRESENT THE PEOPLE THERE?

YOU DON'’T NEED 75 LEGISLATORS.

I HAVE SAID THAT FOR YEARS.

>> WOULD YOU ENDORSE FULL-TIME LEGISLATORS?

>> ONLY IF THEY WENT DOWN TO 39.

38, 39.

>> I AGREE WITH DOREEN THAT THE LEGISLATURE TO BE SMALLER.

>> BUT IT CHANGES WHO WOULD RUN.

>> 13 AND THE SENATE AND 25 IN THE HOUSE.

[LAUGHTER] >> NEED A PHONE BOOTH.

>> WE ARE A SMALL STATE AND WE HAVE ALL THESE ELECTED OFFICIALS.

I DON'’T BELIEVE IN HAVING -- THE STATE'’S PROBLEM IS NOT THAT IT DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH FULL-TIME ELECTED OFFICIALS AND FULL-TIME POLITICIANS.

THE PROBLEM WITH THE STATEHOUSE, IT IS A VERY CLOSED SYSTEM AND THE LEADERSHIP CONTROLS AND THEY LOOK -- DICTATE WHAT HAPPENS.

WE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT CHANGE THE SYSTEM WHICH WOULD BE PUBLICLY FINANCING RACES SO THEY'’RE NOT SO DEPENDENT ON LOBBYISTS AND HACKS FOR FUNDING AND THEN CHANGE IN LEADERSHIP OLES AND HAVE SOME TURNOVER.

THERE ARE PEOPLE UP THERE, JIM, WHO ARE THERE THAT WERE FIRST ELECTED WHEN I WAS IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.

THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO.

WE HAVE GOT TO HAVE SOME TURNOVER.

>> LEGISLATURES TYPICALLY ACROSS THE COUNTRY REWARD LONGEVITY.

WE ALL KNOW THAT.

THERE IS GOING TO BE A VACUUM OF POWER.

IF YOU WHAT TO TURN IT OVER, MIGHT MAKE THE LOBBYISTS AND THE STAFF PEOPLE EVEN MORE POWERFUL THAN THEY ARE NOW.

I AM AMBIVALENT ABOUT THIS FULL-TIME LEGISLATURE WITH MORE MONEY BECAUSE I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT TO HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO GET NEW PEOPLE TO RUN.

THAT WOULD BE FABULOUS.

CUTTING THE SIZE OF LEGISLATURE IS PROBABLY GOOD.

I THINK IT IS BETTER NOW THAN IT WAS.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU LOOK AT NEW HAMPSHIRE AND VERMONT, BOTH HAVE HUGE LEGISLATURES.

IT IS NOT A PANACEA FOR EVERYTHING.

THE OTHER ASPECT HERE IS IF YOU UNDERSTAND POLITICAL SCIENCE THEORY AND JUST COMMON SENSE, YOU RAISE THESE SALARIES AND MAKE IT FULL-TIME.

GUESS WHAT?

YOU MIGHT END UP IN MANY CASES THE POLITICAL CULTURE DECIDES WHO IS GOING TO WIN SO SAY YOU'’RE PAYING $80,000 TO A MAN OR WOMAN THAT YOU ARE NOW PAYING $16,000 TO AND THEY ARE GOING TO WIN THE SEAT.

>> IT WIPES SOME OUT.

PEOPLE -- IF YOU SAY, AND I DON'’T KNOW HOW YOU DO THIS CONSTITUTIONALLY, IF YOU ARE A LAWYER AND YOU ARE A FULL-TIME LEGISLATOR, DOES THAT MEAN YOU CAN'’T TO ANYTHING ON THE SIDE?

YOU DO A WILL OR CLOSING OR WHATEVER?

IT GETS STICKY THAT IT IS FULL-TIME TO MAKE IT THAT THE PERSON WHO CAN GET IN BUT I JUST THINK THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

YOU'’VE ALWAYS BEEN A FAN OF TERM LIMITS.

THAT IS WHY YOU STEPPED AWAY.

>> I SAID I WAS GOING TO DO THREE TERMS IN THE HOUSE AND I DID MY THREE TERMS AND I STUCK TO MY WORD.

HOWEVER, WHEN YOU'’RE A LEGISLATOR, IT IS NOT A PART-TIME POSITION.

YOUR PHONE RINGS EVERY ONE.

YOU ARE EMAILING PEOPLE AT 9:00, 10:00 AT NIGHT.

YOUR STAFF IS WRITING THANK YOU LETTERS.

IT IS A FULL-TIME POSITION FOR MOST PEOPLE.

>> IF YOU O IT RIGHT.

>> THERE ARE SOME THAT HAVE BEEN THERE FOREVER AND THEY DON'’T DO ANYTHING.

>> THERE IS NO OFF SEASON.

>> THERE ISN'’T.

SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, 10 HOURS A DAY OR MORE.

>> WHAT YOU HAVE THIS WEEK?

>> THE OUTRAGE HAS TO BE FOX NEWS.

YOU CAN'’T BELIEVE THAT FROM THE TOP DOWN THESE FOLKS HAVE ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THEY LIED ABOUT THIS HUGE STORY ABOUT ELECTION DENIERS.

I WONDER IF ANYBODY CAN TRUST THEM ON ANYTHING ELSE?

RUPERT MURDOCH DOWN TO CARLSEN DOWN TO HANNITY DOWN TO ALL OF THESE PERSONALITIES.

PRIVATELY, THEY ADMITTED, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEPOSITIONS IN THIS LEGAL CASE -- I GUESS THE VOTING MACHINE PEOPLE, THEY ADMITTED THIS WAS NONSENSE.

>> THEY PROBABLY NEVER THOUGHT THERE TEXTS WOULD BECOME PUBLIC.

>> THEY WENT ON THE AIR UNTIL PEOPLE THE ABSOLUTE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF WHAT IS GOING ON.

TO ME, IT SEEMS TO LOSE ALL CREDIBILITY FOR THEM.

I WONDER WHY ANYBODY CONTINUES TO WATCH, FRANKLY.

>> STEVE?

>> THIS IS A SMALL OUTRAGE.

DAVID CICILLINE HE GOT ELECTED OFFICE IN NOVEMBER.

HELD OFFICE FOR A TWO-YEAR TERM.

HELD OFFICE FOR ABOUT A MONTH AND A HALF AND DECIDED HE DIDN'’T WANT THE JOB ANYMORE AND WANTED TO TAKE ANOTHER JOB THAT PAID MORE MONEY.

NOW WE HAVE TO HAVE A SPECIAL ELECTION THAT COST HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

I UNDERSTAND PEOPLE LEAVE BECAUSE OF FAMILY REASONS ARE HEALTH REASONS.

BUT WHEN YOU LEAVE PUBLIC OFFICE TO TAKE A JOB THAT WILL PAY UP TO ONE LIEN DOLLARS IN THE PUBLIC GETS STUCK PAYING THE BILL, THAT IS A BIT OF AN OUTRAGE TO ME.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE FACT HE IS DELAYING LEAVING UNTIL MAY?

WOULD YOU PREFER TO SEE HIM SAY, LET'’S LEAVE?

>> IF YOU ARE GOING TO LEAVE, LEAVE.

YOUR OF HIS CLEANUP FOCUSED ON YOUR JOB ANYMORE.

-- YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY NOT FOCUSED ON YOUR JOB ANYMORE.

>> I ALSO THINK SOMETHING IS UP.

YOU DON'’T JUST WIN AN ELECTION AND RESIGN.

THERE SOMETHING BEHIND-THE-SCENES.

WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING.

MY KUDOS IS GOING TO BE TO CNN FOR REDUCING DON LEMON'’S -- THEY ARE PUTTING HIM ON THE BACK BURNER.

THANK YOU CNN DOING THAT.

>> WHY?

>> BECAUSE HE LIES.

HE JUST LIES.

HE REITERATES EVERYTHING THAT HE THINKS IS THE TRUTH AND IT IS NOT.

>> HE ALSO HAD PERTINENT CONTENT ABOUT WOMEN BEING IN THEIR PRIME.

>> I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY THAT.

CNN PUT HIM ON THE BACK BURNER AND I'’M SO HAPPY.

HOPEFULLY, HE HAS THE 3:00 A.M. TO 5:00 P.M. SPOT NEXT.

>> THERE YOU HAVE IT.

FOLKS, THANK FOR JOINING US.

STEVE AND SCOTT AND DOREEN, NEVER A GOAL MOMENT.

-- NEVER A DULL MOMENT.

WE ARE ALL OVER SOCIAL MEDIA.

TAKE "LIVELY" WITH YOU.

STAY WITH US.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

>> FOR OVER 30 YEARS, WE PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS ON THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.