EXPERIMENT.

THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS.

AND A STEEP PRICE TAG TO RESTORE PENSION CUTS FOR STATE WORKERS.

A LIVELY EXPERIMENT IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY.

>> HI, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US, ATTORNEY AND LEGAL ANALYST LOU PULNER.

SUE CIENKI OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, AND IAN DONNIS.

THE PUBLIC POLICY RADIO AND POLITICAL REPORTER.

HELLO AND WELCOME.

I’M JIM HUMMEL AND WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING PART OF IT COULD WITH US.

THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY PHYSICIAN CAME -- HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION CAME TO RHODE ISLAND TO SEE WASHINGTON BRIDGE AND HE MAY HAVE TIPPED HIS HAND ON WHAT MANY OF US HAVE BEEN THINKING , THAT THE WESTBOUND SIDE OF THE BRIDGE COULD NEED A TOTAL REBUILD.

IAN, WHAT DID YOU TAKE OUT OF THAT DAY?

IAN: YOU HAVE THE HEADLINE RIGHT.

THE ADMINISTRATOR SAID HE WAS HERE BECAUSE OF THE POSSIBILITY THE BRIDGE MIGHT NEED TO BE REPLACED.

HE WOULD NOT HAVE COME IF IT WAS ONLY A REPAIR SITUATION.

MORE ENGINEERING INFORMATION IS EXPECTED EITHER LATER THIS MONTH OR EARLY IN MARCH.

THE BAD NEWS IS, IF IT NEEDS TO BE A TOTAL REBUILD, THE IMPACT ON TRAFFIC WILL NOT BE WORSE THAN IT IS NOW.

THE BAD NEWS IS ON DAYS WHEN THERE IS A TRAFFIC ACCIDENT OR SOMETHING, IT IS A TERRIBLE BACKUP.

195 BECOMES A PARKING LOT.

JIM: YOU AND I ARE EAST BAY GUYS.

WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF FLEXIBILITY OF SCHEDULE, BUT YOU FEEL FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE TO BE THERE AT A CERTAIN TIME.

GOING EACH WAY.

IAN: MY WIFE WORKS NEAR RHODE ISLAND HOSPITAL.

TRYING TO GET OUT OF THAT AREA IS VERY DIFFICULT.

EVEN IF THERE IS NOT A TRAFFIC ACCIDENT THERE IS A LOT OF CONGESTION, THERE HAS BEEN A WIDE-RANGING RIPPLE EFFECT.

COMMUTING FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IS TAKING LONGER THAN IT USUALLY DOES.

SUE: IT IS A MAJOR HIGHWAY COMING FROM MASSACHUSETTS TO GET INTO PROVIDENCE.

I AGREE, IT IS GOING TO HAVE A RIPPLE EFFECT ON BUSINESSES, PEOPLE’S PERSONAL LIVES, THEIR WORK SCHEDULES.

IT IS A DISASTER.

ARE WE GOING TO BE ABLE TO HOLD ANYONE ACCOUNTABLE?

WE HAVE SEEN INSTANCES WHERE INSPECTIONS HAPPEN AND NOBODY HOLDS ANYBODY ACCOUNTABLE.

IT HAPPENED WITH THE STATION FIRE AND 100 LIVES WERE LOST.

IF THIS BRIDGE HAD COLLAPSED, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DISASTROUS.

NOBODY WAS HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL REQUESTS TO SEE HOW LONG THESE INSPECTION REPORTS HAVE BEEN IGNORED.

SOME OF THESE REPORTS GO BACK TO 2012 WHICH IS WHEN LINCOLN CHAFEE WAS GOVERNOR.

EVERY GOVERNOR ABBOTT THAT HAS -- EVERY GOVERNOR AFTER THAT HAS IGNORED THESE PROBLEMS OR NOT BEEN INFORMED.

EN: -- IAN: ZERO QUESTION IS, -- THE REAL QUESTION IS HOW DID THE BRIDGE COME INTO SUCH DISREPAIR IF IT WAS INSPECTED LAST SUMMER AND FOUND TO BE OKAY?

HOW COULD IT BE IF THERE WAS EVIDENCE OF DECAY THAT WAS NOT EVIDENT UNTIL RECENTLY, HOW DO YOU DO AN INSPECTION?

LOU: THE PROBLEM I SEE IS WE HAVE A LARGE GAS TAX HERE IN RHODE ISLAND AND IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DEDICATED TO ROADS AND BRIDGES.

IT GOES INTO THE GENERAL FUND AND HERE WE ARE TODAY.

SUE: ANYBODY THAT LIVES ON THE EAST BAY IS REALLY IN TROUBLE.

NOW THE REPORTS ARE COMING OUT THAT AMOUNT HOPE BAY IS GOING DOWN TO ONE LANE.

IT IS ONLY TWO LANES.

SO TO GO DOWN TO NEWPORT AND ACCESS 95 THAT WAY THEY ARE REALLY HAMSTRUNG.

JIM: THE BRIDGE BETTER HOLD UP.

IAN: ONE OTHER ASPECT IS THE SITUATION CHANGES A LOT FROM DAY TO DAY.

BUSINESSES IN EAST PROVIDENCE HAVE AN EXAGGERATED VIEW OF WHAT TRAFFIC IS LIKE THERE EVERY DAY.

YES, AT RUSH HOUR, THE TRAFFIC IS CONGESTED.

I DID AN INTERVIEW AT A FLOWER SHOP THIS WEEK.

YOU CAN GO UP AND DOWN TAUNTON AVENUE NO PROBLEM.

BUSINESSES WANT TO GET THE WORD OUT THAT THE CITY IS NOT GRIDLOCKED BY TRAFFIC OUTSIDE OF MORE LIMITED TIMES.

JIM: THIS WEEK WE ARE TAPING ON A THURSDAY AFTERNOON.

WE USUALLY TAPE FRIDAY MORNING.

THURSDAY AFTERNOON, THERE WERE ACCIDENTS ON EACH SIDE AND IT SHOWS YOU THE MARGIN FOR ERROR IS VERY SMALL.

THAT WAS ONE HOUR, SOME PEOPLE COMING IN.

YOU THINK EVEN IN THE BEST OF TIMES GOING THROUGH, I DON’T THINK THE GOVERNOR DOES HIMSELF ANY FAVORS TRYING TO MINIMIZE IT.

I THINK YOU SHOULD SAY WE FEEL YOUR PAIN.

LOU: THE PROBLEM IS PEOPLE ARE BUMPER-TO-BUMPER WHICH LENDS ITSELF TO WANTING TO LOOK AT YOUR PHONE.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT YOUR PHONE, THAT IS WHEN AN ACCIDENT HAPPENS.

BUMPER-TO-BUMPER TO BUMPER.

IT IS A CHAIN REACTION.

JIM: COMING IN THIS AFTERNOON, IT TOOK ME 20 MINUTES.

IT WAS NO PROBLEM.

BUT THAT IS THE MIDDLE OF THE , AFTERNOON ON A WEEKDAY.

WITH NO ACCIDENTS.

SUE: PEOPLE ARE CALLING THEIR BUSES TO SAY I AM STUCK AND -- STUCK IN TRAFFIC, IT IS GOING TO TAKE 30 MINUTES.

THAT ONLY AS TO THE PROBLEM.

JIM: YOU THINK OF THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES.

LIKE BAYVIEW.

I HEARD A WOMAN ON THE RADIO SAY SHE LIVES IN CRANSTON AND HER KIDS GO TO SCHOOL IN DARTMOUTH AND SHE IS PULLING THE KIDS.

SHE SAID I CAN’T DO THIS EVERYDAY.

YOU TALKED TO RYAN PEARSON FOR YOUR ROUNDTABLE THIS WEEK.

DID HE TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE EXPECTING OUT OF THE OVERSIGHT HEARINGS?

THOSE BEGIN MONDAY.

IAN: I ASKED IF HE WAS GOING TO SIT IN ON THAT IN EX OFFICIO CAPACITY.

HE SAYS HE DOES NOT EXPECT TO.

HE WAS WITHHOLDING HIS JUDGMENT ON THE BRIDGE UNTIL THE ROOM WERE FINDINGS ON THAT OVERSIGHT PROCESS.

HE IS FROM CUMBERLAND, THE HOMETOWN OF GOVERNMENT -- OF GOVERNOR MCKEE.

I TRIED TO GET SOME ANSWERS ON HOW LOCALS ARE VIEWING THE GOVERNOR IN LIGHT OF THE BRIDGE EPISODE.

JIM: DID HE TAKE THE BAIT?

IAN: NOT REALLY.

HE WAS RETICENT TO GET INTO THAT.

NO ONE LIKES BEING STUCK IN TRAFFIC.

JIM: YOU DON’T GET TO BE THE -- MAJORITY LEADER WITHOUT A FEW TIMES.

DO YOU HAVE EXPECTATIONS THAT IT IS A JOINT HOUSE AND SENATE OVERSIGHT.

.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO ASK?

LOU: WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MISSING ALL OF THOSE REPORTS AND INSPECTIONS?

IT IS NOT REALLY GOING TO MATTER.

WORST CASE SCENARIO, RBD GETS FIRED.

THE GOVERNOR’S GO DOWN EVEN -- GOVERNORS RATINGS GO DOWN EVEN MORE.

WHAT IS THE UPSHOT?

WE ARE STUCK AND THIS QUAGMIRE AND IT IS GOING TO BE ONE YEAR, TWO YEARS.

JIM: THREE YEARS.

LOU: I DON’T EXPECT IT TO BE THAT QUICK.

I AM GLAD I DON’T LIVE ON THE EAST BAY.

JIM: WHEN THE HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATOR SAID IT WOULD TAKE TWO YEARS OR THREE YEARS, I THOUGHT ABOUT -- IAN: THE BRISTOL BRIDGE.

JIM: 14 YEARS.

EXACTLY.

I THOUGHT ABOUT THAT TOO.

THAT SHIRE -- THEY WERE PAINTED AS THE BAD GUYS AND I REMEMBER TALKING TO THE HEAD OF SHIRE AND THEY HELD THEIR PEACE FOR A LONG TIME AND THEN HE FINALLY SPOKE TO ME.

A LOT OF THAT WAS FAULTY DESIGNS BY THE DOT.

THAT IS WHY IT WENT 14 YEARS.

THEY MAY SELECTIVELY -- MADE IT SOUND LIKE THE CONTRACTORS FAULT.

SUE: YOU WONDER IF THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE, WAS IT A FAULTY DESIGN TO BEGIN WITH SO THAT NOTHING THEY DID IN TERMS OF MAINTENANCE WAS GOING TO FIX THE DESIGN PROBLEM?

YOU ASKED LOU WHAT HE WOULD LIKE TO SEE.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A DESIGN THAT ACTUALLY WORKS AND IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE AREA WE LIVE IN.

YOU TALK ABOUT TWO YEARS.

WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH WEATHER HERE.

TODAY IS A BEAUTIFUL DAY BUT WE LIVE IN AN AREA WHERE YOU GET SNOWFALL HERE IT IS COLD AND -- WHERE IT IS CALLED AND -- COLD AND THINGS HAPPEN.

LET’S MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE RIGHT DESIGN.

LOU: I HAVE GOT NOTHING ELSE TO OFFER.

IT IS A HORRIBLE SITUATION.

JIM: COME LIVE WITH ME FOR A WEEK.

LOU: NOT A CHANCE.

IT IS SUCH A RHODE ISLAND THING.

IT KEEPS ROLLING AROUND MY BRAIN.

THIS IS RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: WE HAD ON ADAM MYERS, I SAID IT IS GOOD IT IS NOT AN ELECTION YEAR BECAUSE IF IT WAS THIS FALL, THAT WOULD BE PROBLEMATIC.

BUT THIS COULD GO ON INTO 26.

SUE: WOULD IT?

PEOPLE GET AGGRAVATED AND COMPLAIN AND STILL ELECT THE SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

WE CAN SIT HERE AND SAY THIS IS AGGRAVATING, THIS IS AWFUL.

NO ONE GETS HELD ACCOUNTABLE AND WE ELECT FOR SAME PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT IT IS GOING TO TAKE.

MAYBE IF THE BRIDGE COLLAPSED THEN PEOPLE WOULD HAVE BEEN AGGRAVATED.

JIM: THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN CRIMINAL INDICTMENTS.

SUE: WHO KNOWS WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED.

JIM: WHAT SENSE HAVE YOU GOTTEN FROM REPORTING ON THIS THAT -- AT WHAT POINT ARE THEY GOING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE PLAN IS?

IAN: I THINK IT WILL COME AFTER THE ADDITIONAL ENGINEERING INFORMATION THIS MONTH OR IN MARCH.

I ASKED GOVERNOR MCKEE IF THERE WAS ANY UPDATE ON WHERE THAT WAS GOING TO BE.

THAT WILL SHED LIGHT ON WHETHER IT IS A REPLACEMENT FOR WHETHER THEY CAN SALVAGE.

JIM: THE STATE TREASURER HAS BEEN CONVENING A PENSION ADVISORY GROUP GOING BACK TO GINA RAIMONDO’S GROUP.

THEY TOOK THE COST-OF-LIVING OF LIVING ADJUSTMENT AWAY FOR A LOT OF RETIREES AND NOW THEY WANT TO REVISIT THIS.

WHAT STRUCK ME THIS WEEK KATHY , GREG, IT SOUNDS GREAT UNTIL YOU SEE WITH THE PRICE TAG -- WHAT THE PRICE TAG MIGHT BE.

$50 MILLION TO $161 MILLION.

MAYBE MORE FROM THERE.

SOME OF THE RETIREES DON’T COLLECT SOCIAL SECURITY.

NOT EVERYBODY HAS THE BED -- BIG HEADLINE OF THE PROVIDENCE FIREFIGHTER.

YOU WONDER IF THERE IS GOING TO BE ANY APPETITE GIVEN WHERE THE BUDGET IS HEADING.

SUE: I DON’T THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE ANY APPETITE IN THE FUTURE.

IT IS TOO EXPENSIVE.

THEY DON’T HAVE THE MONEY.

EVERY CITY AND TOWN HAS TO LOOK AT THEIR MUNICIPAL SOUNDTRACKS -- CONTRACTS.

YOU HAVE TO REALLY PAY ATTENTION.

WHAT ARE YOU PROMISING THESE RETIREES YOU CAN SUSTAIN MALMGREN?

JIM: YOU WILL DON’T WANT TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM THEM.

SUE: YOU DON’T WANT TO TAKE IT AWAY FROM THEM BUT YOU HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT YOU ARE OFFERING AND BE HONEST WITH THEM .

WE CANNOT OFFER YOU THIS GREAT PENSION ANYMORE BECAUSE IT IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

IT IS NOT FAIR TO LOOK AT A RETIREE WHO TURNED 65 AND CANNOT REALLY GO OUT AND GET ANOTHER JOB AND SAY WE PROMISED YOU X AMOUNT BUT WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GIVE THAT TO YOU.

YOU ARE ON A LIMITED INCOME.

IT IS NOT FAIR.

LOU: THEY GOT SCREWED.

UNFORTUNATELY THAT IS ANOTHER , ONLY IN RHODE ISLAND TYPE OF STORY.

THEY GOT REALLY HAMMERED.

INFLATION WHAT IT IS RIGHT NOW, IT IS UNFORTUNATE.

IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT, IT WAS THE GIVEAWAYS BY PREVIOUS POLITICIANS.

I THINK THAT IS JUST --.

JIM: BACK THEN, A LOT OF PEOPLE LEFT THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO GO TO THE PUBLIC SECTOR.

THE PAY MIGHT HAVE BEEN LESS, NOW THE PAY HAS CAUGHT UP.

DRAMATICALLY.

BUT THE PENSION WAS GOOD AND YOU , COULD COUNT ON IT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE LEFT FOR THAT.

IAN: THESE RETIREES ARE SYMPATHETIC FIGURES.

I THINK AT THE SAME TIME WE CAN , SEE HOW THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF CANDIDATES WHO HAVE TRIED RUNNING ON THE ANGER OF THE RETIREES.

MACK BROWN DID THAT IN 2018 WHERE HE TRIED TAKING ON GINA RAIMONDO.

SPENCER DICKINSON DID THAT WHEN HE RAN FOR CONGRESS.

THIS HAS NOT BEEN ANY ISSUE THAT HAS GALVANIZED BROAD POLITICAL SUPPORT.

SO THAT COMBINED WITH A HUGE , PRICE TAG MAKES IT QUESTIONABLE WHETHER THESE RETIREES WILL GET MUCH MORE OF ANYTHING.

FROM THE LEGISLATION.

LOU: THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOMETHING FROM THE COVID MONEY.

EVEN IF IT WAS A LUMP SUM.

YOU GIVE THEM $3000.

YOU ARE GIVEN $3000 TO THAT ONE.

REMEMBER THE GIVEAWAY THE GOVERNOR DID?

JIM: $250 MILLION HAS BEEN ALLOCATED FOR HOUSING.

BUT NOT SPENT.

THEY WANT ANOTHER $100 MILLION.

COULDN’T YOU CARVE A LITTLE BIT OUT OF THAT?

THERE IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE HOUSING CRISIS.

SUE: THROWAWAYS, THEY DON’T MATTER TO THESE POLITICIANS.

THEY DON’T HAVE ANY JUICE TO FORCE THE POLITICIANS TO ACTUALLY GIVE THEM ANYTHING.

JIM: IT IS INTERESTING TO ME.

WHAT IS YOUR SENSE OF WHAT DROVE THIS?

THE LEGISLATURE SORT OF LEANED ON THE TREASURER TO FORM THE COMMITTEE.

DID HE DO THIS ON HIS OWN OR DO YOU THINK IT EMANATED FROM THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY?

IAN: I THINK IT CAME FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

THESE RETIREES AND UP SUPPORT.

THE REPRESENTATIVE FROM WEST WARWICK BECAME OUTSPOKEN ON BEHALF OF THE RETIREES, A COUPLE OF OTHER REPRESENTATIVES HAVE SIGNED OFF -- SOUNDED OFF ON THE ISSUE.

DOING A STUDY COMMISSION WAS DIVERTING THE ISSUE IN SHORT-TERM WHILE THEY TRY AND FIGURE OUT A GAME PLAN.

JIM: PAT SERPA IS REMARKABLY CANDID.

SHE WILL SAY IF I HAD KNOWN WHAT I KNOW NOW I WOULD HAVE NEVER VOTED FOR IT.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT BUT THEY NEVER SAY IT.

GENERAL ASSEMBLY INVOLVES HAVING MAGISTRATES.

WE ARE GOING TO GO TO LOU TO SET US UP.

YOU HAVE JUDGES AND YOU HAVE MAGISTRATES.

MAGISTRATES GET APPOINTED, THEY DON’T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THE NORMAL PROCESS.

THE CHIEF JUDGE OF THE FAMILY COURT SAYING WE WOULD LIKE MAGISTRATES TO SEE DIVORCE CASES WHICH ARE PRETTY COMPLEX.

BIG DECISIONS.

LOU: THE MAGISTRATES ARE QUALITY JURISTS.

JIM: NOT CASTING AND IS VERSIONS -- ANY DISPERSIONS.

LOU: THE NOMINATING COMMITTEE, IT DOES NOT PASS THE SMELL TEST.

JIM: STARTED ABOUT 30 YEARS AGO?

BILL MAGNESS T WAS ONE OF THE FIRST ONES.

HE WAS A MAGISTRATE.

LOU: THE REALITY IS IF YOU PUT A COMMON CAUSE AND JON RUNYAN -- JOHN MARION ASIDE, BECAUSE EVERY ARGUMENT HE MAKES IS LEGITIMATE THE FACT IS , THAT THE MAGISTRATES ARE GOOD.

NO DOUBT IN MY MIND THEY COULD DO CONTESTED TRIALS.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER OR NOT IT PASSES THE SMELL TEST.

JIM: OVER ALL THE MAGISTRATES HAVE GROWN.

IS THAT A GOOD THING?

OR SHOULD THERE BE JUDGES?

IT ALMOST SEEMS LIKE AN END AROUND TO GET MORE JUDGES ON THE BENCH?

LOU: IT IS.

WE STARTED OUT WITH ONE OR TWO AND NOW WE HAVE 10 OR 12.

THE FACT IS, THE FAMILY COURT IS A VERY BUSY COURT.

PEOPLE LIKE TO GET DIVORCED AND REMARRIED AND IT IS A VICIOUS CYCLE.

JIM: IT KEEPS US LAWYERS IN BUSINESS.

LOU: IT DOES.

THE FACT IS, BOTTOM LINE I WOULD , LIKE TO SEE THEM BE ABLE TO HANDLE TRIALS.

IT WOULD EASE THE CALENDAR.

RIGHT NOW, YOU CAN WAIT UP TO A YEAR TO GET A TRIAL.

BUT, IF YOU ALLOW THE MAGISTRATES TO HANDLE SOME OF THE CASELOAD I THINK IT WOULD MOVE THINGS A LOT FASTER.

JIM: WE HAVE ANOTHER ATTORNEY ON THIS PANEL.

SUE: I THINK WHAT THEY DID WITH THE JUDICIAL NOMINATING COMMISSION WAS A HUGE IMPROVEMENT TO WHAT THEY HAD BEFORE.

FROM AN OUTSIDE PERSPECTIVE, IT LOOKS LIKE THEY ARE MAKING AN END RUN AROUND THE PROCESS WHICH DOES NOT PASS THE SMELL TEST.

I AGREE WITH LOU.

ANYBODY THAT BECOMES A MAGISTRATE IS MORE THAN QUALIFIED TO BECOME A JUDGE.

THEN DO YOU NEED MORE JUDGES TO HANDLE IN PARTICULAR WHAT IS HAPPENING IN FAMILY COURT?

LOU: THE DIFFERENCE IS ONCE YOU ARE A JUDGE YOU ARE JUDGE FOR LIFE.

WHEN YOU ARE A MAGISTRATE YOU ARE THERE 10 YEARS.

JIM: HAS ANYONE BEEN YANKED AFTER 10 YEARS?

LOU: VERY FEW.

I KNOW MAGISTRATES THAT HAVE BEEN REUPPED THREE OR FOUR TERMS ALREADY.

JIM: THE NOMINATING COMMISSION HAS APPROVED THE PROCESS.

-- IMPROVED THE PROCESS.

IT WAS INTENDED TO LESSEN THE POLITICAL INFLUENCE.

LET’S FACE IT YOU CANNOT TAKE , THE POLITICS OUT OF WHAT IS INHERENTLY A POLITICAL PROCESS.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO BE WARY OF MISSION CREEP FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN VETTED.

LOU: THE JUDICIAL NOMINATING COMMITTEE, THE SPEAKER GETS A PICK, THE SPEAKER GETS A PICK, ONE GOES ON, THE SENATE PRESIDET GETS A PICK.

THE GOVERNOR GETS TWO PICKS.

IT IS COMPLETELY POLITICAL.

THESE LEGISLATORS THAT, SHOULD HAVE THEIR THUMBS ON THE SCALE.

SUE: IT IS WAY BETTER IN MY PROFESSIONAL OPINION THAT HAVING CHURCHES THAT ARE ELECTED.

JIM: AND THEN HOW DO YOU TAKE CAP A CONTRIBUTIONS AT ALL OF THAT.

SUE: IN NEW YORK, THEY ELECTED JUDGES SO I LIVED THROUGH THAT PROCESS.

I ALSO LIVED ON, THAT WERE -- LIVED IN MARYLAND WHERE ANYBODY WENT BEFORE A NOMINATING COMMITTEE SENT SURVEYS TO EVERY MEMBER OF THE BOARD.

HAVE YOU HAD EXPERIENCE WITH THIS PERSON?

I THOUGHT THAT LEVEL WAS WAY BETTER TAN WHAT WE DO IN RHODE ISLAND BECAUSE PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY WORK WITH THEM GOT TO SAY THEY WERE VERY GOOD ATTORNEYS.

JIM: THEY SAW THEM IN THE TRENCHES.

LOU: I WAS GOING TO SAY THE , ENTIRE SUPREME COURT OF COLORADO IS TRYING TO THROW TRUMP OFF OF THE BALLOT.

THEY WERE ALL APPOINTED OR ELECTED.

NO, THEY WERE APPOINTED.

JIM: YEARS AGO THEY USE TO PICK THEM OUT OF THEIR GENERAL ASSEMBLY SEAT.

WHEN THE SUPREME COURT HAD IN -- AN OPENING, IT WAS THE GRAND COMMITTEE.

THAT WAS BASICALLY THE HOUSE.

YOU LOOK AT WHO WAS ON THE SUPREME COURT 30 YEARS AGO, NOT BESMIRCHING THEIR LEGAL ABILITIES, BUT IT MAKES YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO GO TO LASALLE PC, AND SUFFOLK NIGHTS LAW SCHOOL THEN YOU ARE TO GET A -- TICKETED TO GET A JUDGE SHIP.

SUE: THEN YOU GET A SEAT.

JIM: HOW LONG HAS IT BEEN SINCE THE JUDICIAL NOMINATING COMMITTEE?

25 YEARS?

LOU: AT LEAST.

JIM: THE ACLU DID A SURVEY ON THE PUBLIC BEING ABLE TO A IN -- WEIGH IN AT PUBLIC MEETINGS, SCHOOL COMMITTEES AND TOWN COUNCILS.

I FOUND THIS INTERESTING.

WE ARE INTERESTED IN THIS BECAUSE OF OPEN RECORDS.

THIS IS SOMETHING I DON’T THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW.

IN SOME COMMUNITIES THEY DON’T ALLOW YOU TIME.

THERE ARE SOME COMMUNITIES WHERE EVEN IF YOU WANT TO, YOU CANNOT SAY ANYTHING DURING THE MEETING.

THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS.

IAN: THIS WAS AN EYE-OPENING FINDING.

I REMEMBER YEARS AGO ACCESS RI PROMOTED EFFORTS TO GET POLICE LODGES FOR A PERSON WHO GOES INTO A POLICE AND ASKS TO SEE -- A POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ASKS TO SEE IT.

THERE ARE PRESSURE POINTS FOR THE PUBLIC TO WEIGH IN OR GET INFORMATION.

WE SEE HOW THERE ARE NEW PROPOSALS BEING MADE THIS WEEK TO IMPROVE THE STATE’S ACCESS TO THE PUBLIC RECORDS ACT AND THERE WAS A CONSTANT PUSH AND PULL TO THE -- BETWEEN THE PUBLIC’S RIGHT TO KNOW AND THE GOVERNMENT’S ATTEMPTS TO LIMIT THAT.

JIM: WHAT WAS IT LIKE IN EG?

SUE: IT WAS INTERESTING.

WHEN I WAS FIRST ELECTED TO THE SCHOOL BOARD WE USED TO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT FOR ANYTHING THAT WAS NOT ON THE AGENDA IN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES OF THE MEETING.

AT THE END WE WOULD HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT ON THINGS THAT WERE ON THE AGENDA WHICH I THOUGHT WAS CRAZY.

I SAID PEOPLE THAT TAKE THEIR , TIME TO COME TO THE MEETING AND HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY, PUT THE PUBLIC COMMENT FIRST AND AND THEN GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY IF THERE NOTHING ON THE AGENDA TO SPEAK.

I THOUGHT THAT WORKED WELL.

INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH WHEN I WAS ON THE TOWN COUNCIL, WE ALWAYS HAD PUBLIC COMMENT AND WE WOULD SAY 15 MINUTES.

BUT ANYBODY THAT CAME TO THAT , MEETING THAT WANTED TO SPEAK, I WOULD LET THEM SPEAK BECAUSE THEY TOOK THE TIME OUT.

YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO HEAR WHAT THE CONSTITUENTS SAID.

IS THAT THE SAME NOW?

NOPE.

WE HAVE A BUILDING PROJECT IN EAST GREENWICH, THEY DO NOT HAVE -- THEY DO NOT ALLOW PUBLIC COMMENT.

JIM: WHO IS PAYING FOR THOSE BUILDINGS?

SUE: EVERYBODY IN THE STATE.

IT IS TAXPAYERS.

EVERYBODY IN THE STATE BECAUSE RIDE HAS PUT THESE INCENTIVES IN.

YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO QUESTION AND ASK QUESTIONS.

AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, IF YOU BELIEVE THE DECISION YOU’RE MAKING IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF YOUR CITY OR TOWN, WHY CAN’T YOU NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS?

LOU: THAT WOULD REQUIRE TRANSPARENCY.

[LAUGHTER] THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

JIM: WHAT I DON’T THINK IT IS SOME LAWYER -- I DON’T KNOW HOW THIS HAPPENED.

ALL OF THE SUDDEN LAWYERS WERE ADVISING YOU CANNOT ANSWER BACK.

WHY IS THAT?

SUE: PATRICK LYNCH WHEN HE WAS ATTORNEY GENERAL, IT IS THAT CAN -- WHEN I WAS ON THE SCHOOL COMMITTEE THEY SAID PEOPLE CAN COME ASK YOU QUESTIONS BUT YOU CANNOT ANSWER THEM.

HE SAID BECAUSE THAT WOULD VIOLATE THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

WE NEGOTIATED AND TALKED TO HIM AND SAID IF SOMEBODY ASKS US A QUESTION, WE CAN ANSWER THEM FOR INFORMATION PURPOSES.

WE ARE NOT VOTING ON IT.

IT SHOULD NOT VIOLATE THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT.

HE ACTUALLY RELAXED ANY OPEN MEETINGS VIOLATION.

FOR THE FIRST YEAR OR TWO WE WOULD SIT THERE AND PEOPLE WOULD ASK US QUESTIONS AND WE WERE LIKE WE CANNOT ANSWER THEM.

JIM: THAT CHILLING EFFECT FROM THAT ADMINISTRATION -- PEER WAS PETER MARANO WAS A HE HAS WORKED HARD ON APRA.

THE ONUS IS AGAINST THE PUBLIC AND THE REPORTERS.

IT IS THE PATH OF MR. JUSTICE -- THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE.

THEY DON’T WANT TO ENGAGE WITH THE PUBLIC.

HERE IN RHODE ISLAND WE HAVE GREAT ACCESS WITH POLITICIANS, THEY EXPECT TO INTERACT WITH REPORTERS LIKE YOU AND ME WERE POLITICAL ACTIVISTS LIKE SUE.

WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT GIVING THE PUBLIC AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK AT A PUBLIC MEETING?

SUE: I KNOW IAN INDICATED THIS.

THERE IS LEGISLATION UP THERE THAT REPRESENTATIVE LEE VERY AND -- NEWBERRY AND THE ENTIRE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS HAS PUT IN TO GAIN MORE ACCESS TO ACCESS PUBLIC RECORDS.

EVEN THE WASHINGTON BRIDGET -- BRIDGE, TED REQUESTED SOME INFORMATION AND THEY WERE GOING TO CHARGE $300.

THEN THERE WAS AN INSTANCE OF A MOTHER IN SOUTH KINGSTON WHO ASKED FOR THE CURRICULUM AND THEY WANTED TO CHARGE HER OVER $70,000.

THAT IS NOT TRANSPARENCY.

MAYBE WHAT THEY DID IN HAWAII, PUTTING ONE PLACE ALL OF THESE PUBLIC DOCUMENTS THAT ANYBODY FROM THE PUBLIC CAN GO IN AND LOOK AT IT.

JIM: EVERYBODY SHOULD GO TO FLORIDA AND GET A PRIMER ON HOW THE SUNSHINE STATE IS IN TERMS OF OPEN RECORDS.

YOUR REACTION WHEN THE DOT CHARGED MULTIPLE OUTLETS DIFFERENT PRICES?

IAN: IT WAS BAD, IT WAS EXCESSIVE.

I THINK GOVERNOR MCKEE MADE THE RIGHT MOVE BY CALLING FOR MANY OF THOSE CHARGES TO BE RESCINDED.

ONE BRIGHT SPOT IS WE COMPARABLE TO MASSACHUSETTS WHICH ODDLY IS VERY REACTIONARY AND ITS -- IN ITS APPROACH TO PUBLIC RECORDS.

JIM: THERE IS SOME STUFF THIS WEEK YOU WILL BE WRITING ABOUT?

IAN: ON THURSDAY DEMOCRATIC LAWMAKERS ARE REVIEWING THEIR -- -- ARE UNVEILING THEIR PROPOSAL FOR THE PUBLIC ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS ACT.

JIM: LET’S GO TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

LOU: GOVERNOR MCKEE.

I KNOW HE IS WORKING HARD TO DO THE BEST JOB HE CAN.

YOU MENTIONED IT, HE MINIMIZES THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC AND THE AMOUNT OF TIME IT TAKES TO COMMUTE FROM THE EAST BAY TO PROVIDENCE AND HE SAID IT WAS ONLY 15 OR 10 MINUTES EACH WAY.

WE HAVE TO GET THROUGH THIS.

IT IS NOT A BIG DEAL.

I HEARD MATT ALLEN SAY, MAYBE.

BECAUSE HE HAD HIS TROOPER WHO DRIVES HIM MEASURE IT.

MATT ALLEN SAID THAT IS BECAUSE YOU HAD LIGHTS AND SIRENS.

THE REALITY IS HE DOUBLED DOWN ON THAT SAME TIMEFRAME A FEW DAYS AGO.

I DON’T THINK THAT DOES US ANY GOOD.

IT IS LIKE GORDON FOX USED TO SAY, YOU CAN PUT LIPSTICK ON A PIG BUT IT IS STILL A PIG.

SUE: I WANT TO COMMEND THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS AT THE STATEHOUSE ASKING FOR AN INSPECTOR GENERAL.

IT WOULD BE GREAT.

IT WOULD HANDLE A LOT OF ISSUES WE HAVE TO FIND WASTE, FRAUD, AND ABUSE.

YOU HAVE SEEN NOT ONLY THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE BUT AT ST. MARY’S HOME, I DON’T KNOW WHO -- THAT SAYS RESTORE LIVES AND HIT -- AND GAINING HOPE.

I DO NOT KNOW WHO THEY ARE RESTORING LIVES AND GAINING HOPE FOR.

IT IS OUTRAGEOUS AND NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THAT.

THE YOU HIT THAT HAPPENED SEVERAL YEARS AGO, THESE ARE HERE IS AN INSPECTOR GENERAL -- AND THEY HAVE GOTTEN DEMOCRATIC BY IN FOR THIS.

JIM: THE LEADERSHIP DOES NOT WANT THE CAMEL NOSE UNDER THE TENT.

SUE: IT WOULD BE A WELCOMED ADDITION UNDERWOOD ADDED.

-- IN RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: I AM SURE THERE WILL BE PEOPLE COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK SAYING YOU SHOULD LOOK HERE OR THERE.

IF THERE WAS SOMEBODY MAYBE NOT A CRIMINAL, MAYBE NOT THE AUDITOR GENERAL, MAYBE NOT THE AUDITOR GENERAL TO GO, THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.

SUE: SPEAKING TO OTHER STATES AND TO INSPECTOR GENERAL’S IN 44 STATES THAT HAVE AN INSPECTOR GENERAL, IT REDUCES THE SIZE OF GOVERNMENT.

YOU LOOK AT DHS WHICH IS A ADMINISTRATIVELY TOP-HEAVY INSTITUTION.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE SITUATION WITH SAINT MARY'S, WOULD THAT HAVE HAPPENED IF WE HAD THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN PLACE?

IAN: I VISITED AN OLD FRIEND IN NEW JERSEY.

THERE IS A TOLL PLAZA BETTER NOT -- THAT DID NOT APPEAR TO BE STAFFED.

YOU HAD TO HAVE EXACT CHANGE OR ELSE EVADE THE TOLL.

USUALLY WITH E-ZPASS, AND I DON’T HAVE ANY E-ZPASS, THEY READ YOUR PLATE AND YOU GET BILLED FOR IT.

I EXPECT A FIVE DOLLAR FEE.

I WAS HIT WITH A $50 ADMINISTRATIVE FEE FOR A $1.05 TOLL.

TONY SOPRANO WOULD ENVY THAT RATE OF INCREASE.

I THOUGHT IT WAS OUTRAGEOUS.

THIS WAS CHALLENGED A COUPLE YEARS AGO IN SUPERIOR COURT IN NEW JERSEY, A JUDGE FOUND IT A REASONABLE COST.

I THINK THAT’S OUTRAGEOUS.

SUE: REASONABLE?

JIM: THAT IS CRAZY.

THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

COME BY NEXT WEEK IF YOU DO NOT CATCH US FRIDAY AT 7:00 OR SUNDAY AT NOON.

WE ARCHIVE OUR SHOWS AT RIPBS.ORG/LIVELY.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND