>> THIS WEEK THE GOVERNORS, COMMISSION TAKES HIS NAME OUT OF THE RUNNING.

WHAT PRESENT SHOULD POLICE OFFICERS HAVE IN SCHOOLS?

"A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I AM JASON WHITE JUNIOR.

"A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF A POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JOINING US, ATTORNEY AND FORMER STATE ARE PRESENTED IF NICK GORHAM.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE BLACK LIVES MATTER RHODE ISLAND CLINICAL ACTION COMMITTEE AND STEPH MACHADO, BOSTON GLOBE REPORTER AND RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY CONTRIBUTOR.

HELLO, AND WELCOME.

GOVERNOR MCKEE'’S PICK FOR THE STATE ETHICS COMMISSION HAD SIX WOMEN ACCUSED HIM OF SEXUAL HARASSMENT, INCLUDING TOWN EMPLOYEES AND A MEMBER OF THE SCHOOL COMMITTEE WHILE HE WAS ON THE SOUTH KINGSTOWN COUNCIL.

INTENSE MEDIA COVERAGE OF THOSE INCIDENTS FORCED RESIGNATION OF BRIAN TO CRUZ LESS THAN 24 HOURS AFTER THE ALLEGATIONS CAME TO LIGHT AND BE FOR HE WAS SCHEDULED TO BE SWORN IN.

PERHAPS THE UNDERSTATEMENT OF THE YEAR, THE GOVERNOR'’S OFFICE SAID THE VETTING PROCESS WAS NOT ADEQUATE.

WE HAVE SEEN A LOT OF THIS BEFORE.

I DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS WORSE, MAYBE THE GOVERNOR'’S OFFICE KNEW ABOUT THIS AND WENT AHEAD WITH IT ANYWAY OR MAYBE DID NOT KNOW ALTOGETHER.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS?

>> WELL, IT WAS A LITTLE ODD.

THERE WAS CLEARLY A LACK OF VETTING.

ONE OF THE THINGS I DISCOVERED LOOKING AT CAMPAIN FINANCE, SOMETIMES -- >> THAT IS WHAT YOU DO LATE AT NIGHT.

>> THE DNA OF APPOINTMENTS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

I LOOKED UP THE CAMPAIGN DONATIONS OF MR. TO CREWS.

HE HAS MADE A FEW, BUT THEY ARE USUALLY SMALL.

A FEW MONTHS BEFORE HIS APPOINTMENT, HE MADE A $1000 DONATION TO GOVERNOR MCKEE'’S CAMPAIGN IN APRIL.

FOR SOMEONE BEING APPOINTED TO THE ETHICS COMMISSION, THAT SEEMS A LITTLE BIT OF AN ANOMALY.

A LITTLE BIT ODD.

MAYBE IT WAS ON THE WRONG TRACK FROM THE BEGINNING.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU THINK, HARRISON?

>> THIS IS ANOTHER CASE IN WHICH WE HAVE CONSTANT MISTAKES GOING ON IN THE GOVERNOR'’S OFFICE IN RHODE ISLAND, PARTAKE EARLY THIS ONE -- PARTICULARLY THIS ONE.

THE VETTING PROCESS SHOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.

THIS IS YET ANOTHER BAD LOOK ON OUR STATE WHEN IT COMES THROUGH NOT GOING THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS AND WE HAVE SEEN THIS WITH THE ARMORY AND MULTIPLE CASES OF SEXISM AND RACISM GOING ON.

THIS IS YET ANOTHER SITUATION AND IS ONLY HIGHLIGHTED BY THE FACT THAT HE WAS A POTENTIAL APPOINTEE BY THE BOARD OF ETHICS.

JIM: GREAT REPORTING BY THE GLOBE.

>> THAT IS WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

IT IS AN EXAMPLE OF GOOD JOURNALISM THAT BROUGHT TO LIGHT THESE ALLEGATIONS, WHICH WERE ALARMING.

SOMETHING I LEARNED FROM THIS WAS I DIDN'’T REALIZE THE ETHICS COMMISSION MEMBERS ARE APPOINTED BY THE GOVERNOR WITH NO CONFIRMATION PROCESS.

I AM NOT SUGGESTING THEY SHOULD BE, THAT ADDS ANOTHER LAYER OF POLITICS.

IT MAKES IT EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAT THEY ARE VERY CAREFULLY VETTED, BECAUSE THEY ARE APPOINTED AND THAT IS IT.

JIM: HE WOULD HAVE SAILED RIGHT THROUGH.

THE SKEPTIC IN ME FROM A REPORTER STANDPOINT IS, THIS LAST WEEK, ON FRIDAY -- THIS WAS BEGINNING TO MATERIALIZE, IT WAS THE GOVERNOR'’S OFFICE AND I DID NOT HEAR ANY FOLLOW-UP.

ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE ENDED -- THE INDEPENDENT MAN IS COMING DOWN ON MONDAY MORNING.

SO, THE NEXT AVAILABLE TIME FOR REPORTERS TO TALK TO HIM WAS, WHEN, WHEN THE INDEPENDENT MAN WAS COMING DOWN.

I NEVER HEARD THE GOVERNOR ADDRESS THIS.

IT WAS A QUICK STATEMENT AND THEY TRIED TO MOVE ON.

>> THE STAGECRAFT FOR INDEPENDENT MAN WAS PRETTY GOOD.

JIM: YEAH.

[LAUGHTER] >> YEAH, I SUPPOSE HE MIGHT HAVE LINED IT UP THAT WAY.

I THINK WHAT HARRISON SAID IS TRUE.

THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW OF THESE ABSENT-MINDED APPOINTMENTS.

I DON'’T NOT KNOW HOW ELSE TO CHARACTERIZE IT.

THEY DID NOT DO THEIR DILIGENCE.

LUCKILY, PRESS FINDS OUT ABOUT A LOT OF THESE THINGS.

THANK GOODNESS FOR THE PRESS.

>> A LOT OF RHODE ISLANDERS ARE FRUSTRATED.

IT FEEDS INTO WHAT PEOPLE ALREADY THINK WHAT HAPPENS IN GOVERNMENT.

YOU APPOINT ME TO A BIG BOARD POSITION, IT IS NOT A GOOD LOOK TO THE STATE.

I THINK AND CERTAIN THINGS LIKE THIS, IT COULD ENTERTAIN POTENTIAL REGISTRATION IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

JIM: PEOPLE SEEM BLASE ABOUT THIS.

IT SEEMS LIKE YOU ALMOST LIKE YOU HAVE TO BE A BENEFACTOR AND THERE IS SO MUCH PRESSURE TO RAISE MONEY THESE DAYS THAT IT SEEMS LIKE THE VERY MINIMUM.

IT DID NOT SEEM LIKE THAT 30 YEARS AGO.

>> YEAH, I DO NOT KNOW HOW YOU CAN REGULATE IT UNDER THE SUPREME COURT DECISIONS.

IT SAYS PEOPLE CAN GIVE WHATEVER THEY WANT, HOWEVER MUCH THEY WANT TO THE POLITICAL CAUSES THEY BELIEVE IN.

BUT, IT IS BLATANT.

I THINK PEOPLE SHOULD KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE CAN PASS JUDGMENT THEMSELVES.

THAT IS WHY WE HAVE ELECTIONS.

IT WOULD BE TOUGH TO REGULATE, I THINK.

I AM GLAD I FOUND IT.

[LAUGHTER] >> YEAH, THE 1000.

THERE HAS BEEN DISCUSSION LOCALLY AND NATIONWIDE ABOUT HAVING SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS, A POLICEMAN IN SCHOOLS ACROSS THE COUNTRY PARTICULARLY WITH THE INCREASING NUMBER OF SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

OUR OWN STEPH MACHADO PUT TOGETHER A STORY FOR RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY YOU CAN SEE THIS WEEKEND.

WE CONDENSED IT TO SET THE TABLE FOR THE DISCUSSION.

HERE IS A BIT OF WHAT STEPH REPORTED ON.

>> RHODE ISLAND PBS WEEKLY ASKED SUPERINTENDENTS ACROSS THE STATE WHERE THEY STAND ON HAVING SROS IN THEIR DISTRICTS.

ABOUT HALF OF THOSE WHO GOT BACK TO US SAY THEY PREFER TO HAVE MORE SROS.

IDEALLY, ONE AT EACH SCHOOL.

THERE ARE ROUGHLY 65 SROS IN RHODE ISLAND AND MORE THAN 300 PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE AN SRO IN EVERY SCHOOL IN LINCOLN?

>> TAE DALEY, THAT -- IDEALLY, THAT WOULD BE NICE.

HAVING AN SRO AT EVERY LEVEL ADDS TO THE BUDGET.

THE COMMUNITY HAS TO GET BEHIND IT WITH FUNDING, AS WELL.

>> RECENT POLLING SHOWS SUPPORT FOR SROS IN RHODE ISLAND.

A UNIVERSITY OF RHODE ISLAND SURVEY RELEASED IN OCTOBER ASKED ADULTS ABOUT A VARIETY OF POLICY TOPICS, INCLUDING IF THEY WOULD SUPPORT LEGISLATION TO PROVIDE STATE FUNDING FOR POLICE OFFICERS IN SCHOOLS.

57% OF THOSE POLLED EITHER STRONGLY OR SOMEWHAT APPROVED, WHILE 15% STRONGLY OR SOMEWHAT DISAPPROVED AND 22% WERE NEUTRAL.

>> WE ARE NOT OPPOSED TO A MODEL IN WHICH POLICE OFFICERS GET CALLED TO SCHOOLS WHENEVER THERE IS AN ISSUE.

WE UNDERSTAND THE DIFFICULTIES A SCHOOL COULD GO THROUGH, WHETHER A PERSON HAVING A GUN INSIDE THE SCHOOL OR SOMEONE THAT IS A THREAT TO OTHERS.

THAT IS NOT WHAT WE ARE CONTENDING.

WE ARE CONTENDING THAT THE PROBLEM IS THAT WE HAVE POLICE OFFICERS, OFTENTIMES BEING AT HIGHER NUMBERS IN RHODE ISLAND AND WE ACTUALLY DO SOCIAL WORKERS.

>> THE GROUPS OPPOSING SRU'’S -- SROS USED THE SLOGAN, COUNSELORS, NOT COPS, ARGUING MENTAL HEALTH PROFESSIONALS ARE BETTER EQUIPPED TO THE ESCALATE SITUATIONS.

WHEN THEY SAY COUNSELORS, NOT COPS, YOU WOULD SAY?

>> THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A NEED -- FOUR MORE SCHOOL OFFICERS.

>> COUNSELORS AND COPS.

>> YES, YEAH.

JIM: YOU CAN WATCH STEPH'’S ENTIRE PIECE ON STUDENT RESOURCE OFFICERS ON RHODE ISLAND PS WEEKLY THIS SUNDAY AT 7:30 P.M. LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU.

WHERE DID THIS IDEA COME FROM?

THIS DISCUSSION HAS BEEN OUT HERE AND YOU HAVE GOT BOTH SIDES.

WE HAVE HARRISON, TOO.

>> THE IDEA CAME FROM BARBARA, THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR.

IT IS SOMETHING I HAVE BEEN COVERING FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, JUST THIS DEBATE, ESPECIALLY IN PROVIDENCE ABOUT, SHOULD WE HAVE POLICE OFFICERS IN SCHOOLS?

THERE HAS BEEN A MOVEMENT FOR AT LEAST A DECADE NOW TO GET RID OF .

IN ANY WAY.

WE HAVE SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS IN RHODE ISLAND AND I WANTED TO KNOW, WHAT IS THE LANDSCAPE OF SROS RIGHT NOW?

WHAT ARE THEY DOING IN THE SCHOOLS?

I SENT AN EMO TO EVERY SUPERINTENDENT IN THE STATE TO ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT THEIR SRO PROGRAM.

IF YOU WATCH THE PIECE ON SUNDAY, YOU WILL SEE I FEATURE AN SRO IN BRISTOL WARNED SCHOOLS WHO BROUGHT A THERAPY DOG INTO THE SCHOOL AND IT IS CUTE.

THE DOG.

[LAUGHTER] WHO IS HELPING STUDENTS WHO HAVE MENTAL HEALTH CRISES, WHO HAVE ANXIETIES COMING OUT OF THE PANDEMIC, HELPING CALM THEM DOWN, HELPING WITH SOCIAL AND EMOTIONAL NEEDS IN CONJUNCTION WITH SOCIAL WORKERS AND COUNSELORS AND OTHER TYPES OF RESOURCES.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS INTERESTING, BECAUSE 20 YEARS AGO WHEN HE HEARD ABOUT A SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER, YOU THOUGHT ABOUT THEM WHO IS THERE TO BE AN AUTHORITY FIGURE, WHO IS THERE TO -- >> DISCIPLINE.

>> DISCIPLINE, TO STOP A BAD GUY COMING INTO THE SCHOOL WITH A GUN.

WE ARE SEEING THIS NEW WAVE OF SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS WHO ARE MORE PASSIONATE ABOUT SUPPORTING AND HELPING THE STUDENTS.

THE SROS FORMED AN ASSOCIATION LAST YEAR FOR THE FIRST TIME TO TRY AND GET ON THE SAME PAGE.

AT THE SAME TIME, GROUPS LIKE BLACK LIVES MATTER AND THE ACLU REMAIN CONCERNED THAT SOME OFFICERS ARE CONTINUING TO REMAIN DISCIPLINARIANS AND THEY WANT TO SEE CHANGES TO THAT.

JIM: YOU WILL SEE THIS IN THE FULL PIECE.

IS YOUR ISSUE WITH THE DISCIPLINE OR THE FACT THEY ARE ARMED IN SCHOOL?

>> IT IS A MIXTURE OF BOTH.

WE HAVE TEACHERS THAT ARE IN CLASSROOMS THAT WILL DEFER TO SROS TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE BEHAVIORAL HEALTH ISSUES THAT MAY BE BETTER HANDLED BY A SOCIAL WORKER OR COUNSELOR, IN AN ALTERNATIVE WAY.

IT WAS INTERESTING, I AM NOT SURE IF IT WAS IN THE PIECE.

WE FOUND DATA THAT WOULD SUPPORT THE FACT THAT POLICE OFFICERS, SROS WHO ARE ARMED WITHIN SCHOOLS ACTUALLY INCREASE THE LIKELIHOOD OF A SCHOOL SHOOTER COMING INTO THE SCHOOL AND INFLICTING MORE MASS CASUALTIES BECAUSE OF THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE BEING MET WITH ANOTHER GUN OR ANOTHER FORM OF VIOLENCE, AS WELL AS WE SEE DATA THAT SUGGESTS THAT SHOOTERS, PARTICULARLY SCHOOL SHOOTERS, WILL GO INTO SCHOOLS THEY HAVE ALREADY ATTENDED IN THE PAST.

THE BIG THING THAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE, IS THAT THE KIDS FEEL SAFE AND WE ARE HEARING FROM A LOT OF STUDENTS WITHIN PROVIDENCE AND OTHER DISTRICTS THAT THEY DO NOT FEEL SAFE WITH AN SRO.

WE OUGHT TO MAKE SURE KIDS ARE ABLE TO GO TO SCHOOL AND HAVE THE PROTECTION FROM EXTERNAL THREATS.

I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE FIND A SOLUTION IN THIS IS MAKING SURE POLICE OFFICERS ARE OUTSIDE OF INSIDE THE SCHOOL.

MAKING SURE THEY CAN RESPOND TO A POTENTIAL THREAT FROM OUTSIDE OF CAMPUS WHERE THERE IS AN IMMEDIATE RESPONSE, BUT THERE IS AN OVERWHELMING FEAR WITHIN URBAN DISTRICTS THAT POLICE OFFICERS ARE GOING TO INFLICT HARM ON STUDENTS OF COLOR THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN THE PAST.

>> FIRST, I THINK IT SHOULD BE LEFT TO THE DISCRETION OF THE LOCAL SCHOOL COMMITTEE.

I BELIEVE THAT IS THE CURRENT STATE OF THE LAW.

I THINK SCHOOL COMMITTEES, THEY ARE ELECTED BECAUSE THEY HAVE A CONNECTION THAT THE VOTERS HAVE OBSERVED, THEY CONNECTION THAT THEY HAVE WITH THE SCHOOLS AND THE LOCAL SCHOOLS, AND THEY ARE FIT TO RUN THEM.

I THINK A LOT OF THE SRO QUESTIONS CAN BE ANSWERED BY SCHOOL COMMITTEES.

I THINK HARRISON BROUGHT UP VALID ISSUES.

THOSE CAN BE ADDRESSED LOCALLY.

JIM: IT ALSO SEEMS THERE MAY BE A DISCONNECT BETWEEN THE URBAN CORE AND MAYBE OUT IN IF YOU ARE IN BRISTOL, WITH THE DOG OR IN CUMBERLAND.

>> YES AND NO.

ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS I SPOKE TO THE ACLU FOR THE PIECE THAT IS GOING TO RUN IN THE GLOBE, ONE OF THE FIRST CASES THEY BROUGHT UP WAS HAPPENED WHERE A STUDENT FLIPPED A BIRD TO A POLICE OFFICER AND THE OFFICER TOOK HIM TO THE GROUND AND ARRESTED HIM AND THERE ENDED UP BEING A LAWSUIT THAT WAS SETTLED THIS YEAR.

THERE HAVE BEEN INCIDENTS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN TOWNS, IN ADDITION TO THE URBAN CORE.

YES, CERTAINLY IN THE URBAN CORE THERE HAVE BEEN MORE CONCERNS WITH, FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE SEEN STUDENTS BRING WEAPONS TO SCHOOL IN PROVIDENCE OR HAVE SEEN STUDENTS IN PAN BUCKET -- IN NANTUCKET GET INTO ALTERCATIONS WITH SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS, FOR SURE.

JIM: I GET THE CONCERN ABOUT DISCIPLINE.

YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT IN THE PIECE, ABOUT HOW YOU CAN'’T SUBSTITUTE -- THE OFFICERS CAN BE LIKE, THAT IS YOUR ISSUE, WE ARE HERE FOR OTHER THINGS.

WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THAT IF THERE IS A SCHOOL SHOOTER THERE, TO HAVE SOMEBODY ARMED IN THE BUILDING WHEN SECONDS COUNT, LET ALONE MINUTES, AS OPPOSED TO HAVING CALLING SOMEBODY AND IT IS FIVE MINUTES AND THEY CAN'’T GET IN THE BUILDING?

WE HAVE SEEN THAT ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.

AFTER VIRGINIA TECH.

WHAT ABOUT THAT ARGUMENT, TO HAVE AN OFFICER IN THE SCHOOL, ARMED AND READY TO GO?

>> IS A SITUATION WHERE I THINK, CONVENTIONAL THOUGHT AND SOMETHING THAT I PERSONALLY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE, YEAH, WE NEED A OFFICER IMMEDIATELY TO RESPOND.

THERE WAS A REPORT THAT WAS PUT OUT, SINCE 1999 WITH THE SCHOOL SHOOTING IN COLUMBINE ALL THE WAY TO NOW THAT SUGGESTS THAT HAVING AN SRO DOES NOT PROHIBIT ANY SCHOOL SHOOTER RUM CREATING MASS CASUALTY.

JIM: BUT HE COULD BE THERE TO TAKE THEM DOWN.

>> THEY COULD.

DATA ALSO SUGGESTS THERE HAVE BEEN MORE INSTANCES IN WHICH TEACHERS HAVE SUBMITTED OR HAS RESTRAINED SCHOOL SHOOTERS THEN SROS.

THIS IS GIVEN OVER A 20 YEAR PERIOD, THIS IS NOT ISOLATED INCIDENTS.

FOR US, IT IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS WHERE WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE DATA, HAVE TO MAKE SURE NOT ONLY PEOPLE FEEL THEY'’VE BUT PEOPLE ARE SAFE.

SOMETIMES, THOSE TWO THINGS ARE CONFLATED.

>> THE REPORT NEEDS REFERENCING, ALSO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEY CANNOT COUNT IF ANY SCHOOL SHOOTINGS WERE PREVENTED BECAUSE OF THE PRESENCE OF AN ARMED OFFICER IN THE SCHOOL.

JIM: IT IS A FINANCIAL ISSUE.

>> STEFFES PIECE TALK ABOUT 65 VERSUS 310 SCHOOLS.

AFTER EVERY MASS SHOOTING, IT SEEMS, LET'’S GET SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICERS AT EVERETT SCHOOL.

IT IS NOT TENABLE TO THE LOCAL TOWNS, RIGHT?

WE HAVE A HARD ENOUGH TIME GETTING POLICE OFFICERS TO ROUND OUT MINIMUM MANNING TO BEGIN WITH, RIGHT?

>> YEAH, BUT YOU KNOW, IF THE PROLIFERATION OF THESE MASS MURDERS IN SCHOOLS SHOW ANYTHING, IT IS THAT IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAPPEN IN THE URBAN CORE.

IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE.

THAT IS WHY I KNOW MANY OF THE OUTLYING TOWNS HAVE SROS.

I BELIEVE THEY HAVE ONE IN SCITUATE, I BELIEVE THEY HAVE ONE IN FOSTER.

>> IT IS ALL MOST EVERY SINGLE TOWN.

>> YES, I THINK IT IS ALL MOST IMPOSSIBLE.

JIM: NOT EVERY SCHOOL, BUT EVERY TOWN.

>> IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PREDICT WHAT A CRAZY PERSON WITH A GUN IS GOING TO DO.

THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF A PROBLEM WITH THE SCHOOL SHOOTINGS.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO WITH THE SECOND AMENDMENT, YOU HAVE GOT TO STOP CRAZY PEOPLE FROM HAVING GUNS.

WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT AS A SOCIETY.

JIM: I THINK THE COUNSELORS, NOT COPS MOVEMENT, I THINK IF THERE IS ONE CLEAR THING WE CAN GO FROM THAT WE ARE HEARING FROM SUPERINTENDENTS, IT IS MORE COUNSELORS IN SCHOOLS.

JIM: I THINK IN GENERAL, YOU HAVE COPS -- WE TALKED ABOUT THIS POST GEORGE FLOYD AND BEFORE, COPS GET SENT TO SO MANY SITUATIONS WHERE YOU NEED A PROFESSIONAL.

THEY BECOME THE DE FACTO.

ANYTHING THAT SURPRISED YOU WHEN YOU WERE REPORTING THIS?

ANYTHING THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU?

>> I THINK, ACTUALLY, SOMETHING THAT SURPRISED ME WAS HOW MUCH THE TWO SIDES OF THIS ISSUE ACTUALLY AGREE ON A LOT OF THINGS.

THEY ALL BELIEVE THAT WE NEED BETTER MENTAL HEALTH RESOURCES IN SCHOOLS.

THEY ALL BELIEVE THAT WE NEED MORE COUNSELORS IN SCHOOLS.

THERE IS A DEBATE WHETHER POLICE SHOULD BE IN SCHOOLS AND HOW EXACTLY THEY SHOULD BE USED IN SCHOOLS.

THE GOAL OF EVERY WHEN I SPOKE TO WAS THE SAME, WHICH WAS TO SUPPORT STUDENTS.

IT IS JUST HOW WE DO IT PROPERLY.

JIM: MAKE SURE YOU SEE STEFFES FOR PEACE SUNDAY NIGHT ON PBS WEEKLY.

IT HAS BEEN AN ONGOING ISSUE, HOUSING IN RHODE ISLAND, THE SOARING PRICES, THE INCREASES FOR APARTMENTS ARE ONE OF THE HIGHEST IN THE COUNTRY, IF NOT THE HIGHEST.

HARRISON, WE ARE GOING INTO THE WINTER SEASON WITH THE HOMELESS MOVEMENT.

WE COULD DO TWO HOURS ON HOUSING.

THE LEGISLATURE HAS PASSED LAWS TO TRY AND MAKE IT EASIER TO RELAX ON ZONING CODES IN VARIOUS TOWNS.

I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE THAT.

>> WE ARE SEEING THAT ALL THROUGHOUT THE STATE WHEN IT COMES TO LOCAL MUNICIPALITIES FEELING LIKE THEY WERE LEFT OUT OF THIS PROCESS.

OF COURSE, WE HAVE REPRESENTATIVE JUNE SPEAKMAN WHO REPRESENTS WARREN IN WHICH THE WARREN COUNCIL FELT LIKE, HEY, COME TO US AND THAT WAS NOT THE CASE, OR AT LEAST THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE SAYING.

THERE MAY HAVE TO BE REVISIONS WITHIN PARTICULAR LEGISLATION THAT, I THINK SOME MUNICIPALITIES HAVE FELT WAS POORLY WRITTEN, BUT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK ALL OF US AGREE, AS EVERY SINGLE YEAR HAPPENS THAT THERE IS A REAL HOMELESSNESS ISSUE IN RHODE ISLAND.

THE AFFORDABILITY OF THINGS AND IT IS FOLKS THAT CAN'’T AFFORD TO LIVE IN EVERY TOWN, NEVER MIND PLACES LIKE PROVIDENCE OR CRANSTON.

CERTAINLY, WE ALLOCATED A LOT OF MONEY THIS YEAR TOWARDS HOUSING.

BUT, I DO NOT THINK THAT WE STOP THERE.

I THINK WE CONTINUE TO FIND NEW WAYS TO PROVIDE FOCUSED SHELTER IN THE SHORT-TERM AND LONG-TERM.

>> WHEN I WAS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, ONE OF THE MOST OFT REPEATED MANTRAS WAS, WE SHOULD NOT BE DOING THINGS AS ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL.

THIS NEW LAW, HARRISON IS RIGHT -- IT IS A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL, IT IS THE PARADIGM OF ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL.

WHAT THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DID LAST YEAR IN ESSENCE IS, THEY REMOVED ALL DISCRETION FROM LOCAL ZONING BOARDS AND PLANNING BOARDS AND TOWN COUNCILS WHO CREATE THE ZONING ORDINANCES.

THEY ELIMINATED ALL THAT DISCRETION AND NOW, THERE IS ONE RULE.

IT HAS BEEN CREATED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

YOU HAVE TO FOLLOW IT.

OF COURSE, THERE IS GOING TO BE A LOT OF BLOWBACK, ESPECIALLY WHEN PEOPLE START SEEING THE EFFECT OF THIS LEGISLATION.

THERE ARE A LOT OF TOWNS IN THIS STATE THAT HAVE A LOT OF BEAUTIFUL, OPEN SPACE THAT COULD BE PRESERVED SO THAT EVERYBOY IN THE STATE COULD ENJOY IT.

THAT IS GOING TO BE LESS AND LESS LIKELY BECAUSE THE MOST VULNERABLE OF TOWNS AS I UNDERSTAND IT FROM PLANNING PEOPLE ARE THE TOWNS THAT HAVE THE MOST LAND THAT HAS NOT BEEN DEVELOPED.

THE -- IT'’LL BE INTERESTING TO SEE HOW THIS PLAYS OUT.

I DO NOT THINK YOU WILL SEE THE END OF TOWNS SAYING THIS IS CRAZY.

JIM: ARE WE GOING TO SEE LITIGATION, OR IS IT STATE LAW AND YOU HAVE GOT TO FOLLOW IT?

>> THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS THE SUPREME AUTHORITY OF THE STATE.

IT IS GOING TO BE HARD TO CHALLENGE THE LAW.

THIS IS WELL WITHIN THEIR WHEELHOUSE TO DO THIS.

I THINK YOU ARE GOING TO SEE VERY ANGRY PEOPLE ONCE THEY START SEEING THE MANIFEST EFFECTS OF THIS LAW.

>> YEAH, I THINK WE ARE GOING TO KEEP SEEING THIS PUSH POLL BETWEEN THE STATE AND LOCAL UNISON POLITIES BECAUSE -- MUNICIPALITIES BECAUSE THERE IS A MASSIVE HOUSING CRISIS AND WE NEED MORE HOUSING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

JIM: THAT IS THE ONLY THING THERE IS GOING TO BE TO BRING THE RENTS DOWN.

>> I AM NOT AN ECONOMIST, BUT IT WOULD HELP.

JIM: YOU PAY YOUR RENT EVERY MONTH, DON'’T YOU?

>> SURE DO.

[LAUGHTER] THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY WAS ANSWERING THIS CALL FROM EVERYONE, PRACTICALLY, THAT WE NEED TO BUILD MORE HOUSING, DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS.

I THINK THERE WILL BE MORE LAWS THAT THE STATE IMPOSES UPON TOWNS AND CITIES, AND THEY ARE GOING TO PUSH BACK BECAUSE THEY WANT TO RETAIN LOCAL CONTROL.

WHAT I WOULD BE WATCHING IS, HOW MUCH IS THIS GOING TO SLOW DOWN THE PRODUCTION OF NEW HOUSING?

MUNICIPALITIES IN THE STATE GOVERNMENT ARE FIGHTING.

JIM: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT JOHNSON AND WALES AND WE MAY SEE SOME OTHER COLLEGES DO THIS, STUDENTS DO SO MUCH OFF-CAMPUS HOUSING JOHNSON AND WALES SAYS YOU NEED TO DO AT LEAST THREE YEARS ON CAMPUS AND THAT MIGHT FREE UP HOUSING?

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?

>> I THINK IT IS GOING TO BE A PART OF THE SOLUTION, HOPEFULLY.

I THINK FOR MANY COLLEGE KIDS WHO ARE WITHIN SCHOOL, THE AFFORDABILITY OF THINGS, WHETHER ON CAMPUS OR OFF CAMPUS, I DO NOT KNOW HOW MUCH THAT REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE TO THEM BASED ON A LOT OF THE KIDS THAT ARE GOING INTO SCHOOL NOW.

WE HAVE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WORK WITH UNIVERSITIES.

BROWN UNIVERSITY, URI, COLLEGES THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY ARE TRYING TO FIND WAYS TO MEET THEIR COMMUNITIES NEEDS WHILE ALSO MEETING FOLKS INCREASINGLY GOING TO SCHOOL.

I THINK IF WE TAKE THE APPROACH OF WORKING WITH MUNICIPALITIES AND THE UNIVERSITIES THAT THEY ARE IN, WE ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF SOLUTION.

IT IS NOT GOING TO BE THE SOLUTION THAT IS GOING TO SOLVE ALL OF OUR ISSUES.

JIM: LET'’S GO TO OUTRAGES AND WE HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS WE WANT TO GET TO.

NICK, LET'’S BEGIN WITH YOU.

OUTRAGE OR KUDO?

>> I WILL DO A KUDO THIS WEEK.

I HAVE USED IT BEFORE, BUT IT IS NICE TO SEE THERE IS SO MUCH NEW WORK IN THE STATE THAT THE DOT HAS CONSTRUCTED BEAUTIFUL, NEW ROADS.

THE -- I COULD SWEAR, THE GRAFFITI PACE HAS SLOWED DOWN, OR WHERE IT HAS BEEN DEFACING OUR BEAUTIFUL HIGHWAYS WE SPEND SO MUCH MONEY ON AS TAXPAYERS, THEY HAVE BEEN PAINTED OVER BY THE DOT.

IT IS NICE TO SEE THAT.

MAYBE IT IS PETER LV KNEES PROGRAM TO END THE GRAFFITI, I DO NOT KNOW.

JIM: SO, GOOD GUYS KEEPING UP WITH THE BAD GUYS, RIGHT?

>> SO FAR, SO FAR.

JIM: STEPH, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

>> I HAVE A KUDOS FOR PART-TIME WESTERLY RESIDENT TAYLOR SWIFT, WHO WAS NAMED TIME PERSON OF THE YEAR.

BEFORE OUR VIEWERS WRITE ME OFF, GO READ THE TIMEPIECE OF THE PERSON OF THE YEAR DECISION.

WHAT SHE HAS DONE FOR THE MUSIC INDUSTRY, FOR THE ECONOMY -- >> FOR THE NFL.

>> FOR THE CRAFT BEAD FRIENDSHIP BRACELET INDUSTRY, SHE IS A BRILLIANT SINGER-SONGWRITER AND I AM A FAN, FULL DISCLOSURE.

I THINK IT WAS A YEAR WHERE WOMEN AND GIRLS CAME TOGETHER.

THE BARBIE MOVIE WAS PART OF THAT.

I THINK IT WAS A GREAT MOVE AND PEOPLE ARE TOTALLY CRITICIZING THE PERSON OF THE YEAR CHOICE.

JIM: I THOUGHT IT WAS A BOLD CHOICE.

>> I THOUGHT IT WAS THE RIGHT CHOICE.

NOT ONE PERSON DID NOT TALK ABOUT TAYLOR SWIFT THIS YEAR.

PEOPLE SHOULD GO READ THE ARTICLE BECAUSE IT WAS REALLY GOOD.

>> I WAS TALKING TO MY MOM.

MY MOM SAID, WHY IS TAYLOR SWIFT -- WHY?

>> READ THE ARTICLE.

>> EXACTLY.

>> THE WALL STREET JOURNAL, ONE OF THE COLUMNISTS SAID EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

SHE WAS AN ECONOMIC FORCE EVERYWHERE SHE WENT, ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

MORE THAN JUST ANOTHER ROCK STAR.

>> SHE HAS THE INTERNATIONAL TOUR NEXT YEAR AND COUNTRIES ARE BEGGING HER TO COME TO THEIR COUNTRY SO THEY CAN FEEL THE ECONOMIC EFFECTS.

>> SHE IS HER OWN GDP.

>> I WANT TO GIVE KUDOS DURING THIS HOLIDAY TIME TO ALL OF THE FAMILIES THAT ARE PUTTING FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR THEIR KIDS.

I KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH SOME FINANCIAL HARDSHIPS.

I WANT TO KEEP SAYING, KEEP DOING THE GOOD WORK.

HOPE EVERYBODY HAVE A GOOD HOLIDAY.

JIM: I AM IN THE HOLIDAY SPIRIT.

>> HAPPY HANUKKAH TO OUR VIEWERS.

JIM: HANUKKAH STARTED THURSDAY NIGHT.

IT WOULD NOT BE A SHOW WITH STEPH MACHADO IF WE DID NOT HAVE AN UPDATE ON CANNABIS.

HOW MANY TIMES DO WE TALK ABOUT, IT IS GOING TO GET LEGALIZED, IT IS GOING TO TAKE A YEAR TO GET THE COMMISSION PICKED?

I READ YOUR STORY AND I AM STUNNED IT HAS BEEN A YEAR ALREADY.

THE TIME IS FLYING BY.

THE POINT OF YOUR STORY WAS, HOW WAS THE FIRST YEAR?

WAS IT ON TARGET AND WHAT ARE THE PROJECTIONS GOING FORWARD?

>> WE DO NOT HAVE THE NOVEMBER NUMBERS YET.

I ONLY HAD 11 MONTHS OF SALES DATA.

THE FIRST 11 MONTHS, 60 $3 MILLION WORTH OF RECREATIONAL CANNABIS WAS SOLD, THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE THE MEDICAL.

IT IS ON TRACK TO BE $70 MILLION FOR THE FIRST YEAR, WHICH IS ROUGHLY ON TRACK WITH PROJECTIONS.

IT DID NOT MEET PROJECTIONS FOR LAST FISCAL YEAR, THERE PROJECTIONS FOR THIS FISCAL YEAR WERE MORE REALISTIC.

RIGHT NOW, THEY SEEM TO BE ON TRACK WITH WHAT THE STATE THOUGHT THE SALES WOULD BRING IN.

WE STILL DO NOT HAVE NEW STORES OPEN.

IT SOUNDS LIKE MAYBE WE WILL NOT EVEN HAVE NEW STORES OPEN IN 2024.

WE WILL HAVE TO SEE.

THE NEW CANNABIS CONTROL COMMISSION HAS NOT TAKEN OVER THE INDUSTRY BECAUSE OF THE LONG DELAY TO NAME THIS COMMISSION.

NOW, THEY ARE COMING UP WITH RULES AND REGULATIONS, INCLUDING HOW IT WILL DECIDE WHO GETS THESE 24 NEW LICENSES TO SELL CANNABIS.

JIM: A LOT OF THOSE BUSINESSES WERE COMPLAINING WERE ALL RAMPED UP AND READY TO GO AND MIGHT HAVE TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THEY CAN'’T WAIT FOREVER.

>> YOU ARE REFERRING TO THE CULTIVATORS, THE PEOPLE GROWING CANNABIS.

THEY ARE HAPPIER BECAUSE THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES ARE NOW ALLOWED TO SELL RECREATIONAL.

THE CULTIVATORS HAVE MORE PLACES TO SELL THEIR PRODUCT.

WE HAVE SEVEN MEDICAL/ RECREATIONAL DISPENSARIES THAT ARE OPEN.

THERE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE 24 STORES IN THE LAW THAT PASSED IN MAY OF 2022.

WE ARE NOT CLOSE TO HAVING THOSE STORES OPEN YET.

THEY HAVE NOT COME UP WITH THE RULES ON HOW THEY WILL PICK THEM.

JIM: I WONDER HOW THE STATE WILL TAX ITSELF OUT.

WE JOKE, PEOPLE SAY WHY DON'’T I GO TO MY DEALER BECAUSE IT IS LESS EXPENSIVE?

NOT MY DEALER, MAYBE YOUR DEALER.

PEOPLE SEEM TO BE WILLING TO PAY THE MONEY.

>> I THINK THE REASON THAT THE STATE LEGALIZED CANNABIS IS THAT THEY WANTED THE MONEY.

IT CERTAINLY, CERTAINLY WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FOR THE WELFARE OF YOUNG RHODE ISLANDERS BECAUSE IT IS DECIMATING THEM.

JIM: HARRISON?

>> I THINK PART OF THE PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT MAY BE IS NOT TALKED ABOUT ON A FINANCIAL END IS THE EXPUNGEMENT ELEMENT AND THE WORK OF COOPERATIVES.

HAVE NOT SEEN A LOT OF UPDATES REGARDING THAT.

I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THERE BE SOME MOVEMENT, THERE ARE FOLKS LOCKED UP DUE TO THE WAR ON DRUGS THAT ARE STILL NOT OUT OF PRISON.

>> MAYBE THAT IS THE NEXT PIECE, GIVING A FOLLOW-UP.

>> SOME OF THOSE 24 NEW STORES ARE SUPPOSED TO GO TO THE WORKER CO-OPS.

JIM: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

FOLKS, COME BACK NEXT WEEK AS THE LIVELY EXPERIMENT CONTINUES.

WE HOPE YOU HAVE A GOOD WEEK AND GOOD WEEKEND.

♪ [CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> A LIVELY EXPERIMENT HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

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