[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] JIM: COMING UP, COULD THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE NEED TO BE REPLACED?

IS ONE OF THE OPTIONS ON THE TABLE.

THE ETHICS COMMISSION DISMISSES A COMPLAINT AGAINST GOVERNOR MCKEE.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THIS WEEK’S PANEL, AN ATTORNEY AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE, MIKE MASELLA.

STEVE FRIAS, COMMITTEEMAN FOR THE RHODE ISLAND REPUBLICAN PARTY.

POLITICAL STRATEGIST, LISA PELOSI.

WELCOME TO THIS WEEK’S LIVELY, I AM JIM HUMMEL.

ANY ESTIMATED THREE MONTH FIX FOR THE WASHINGTON BRIDGE IS OFF THE TABLE AS STATE OFFICIALS FOUND THE DAMAGES WORSE THAN THEY THOUGHT AND HAVE NOT RULED OUT A TOTAL DEMOLITION AND REBUILD OF THE WESTBOUND LANES.

GOVERNOR MCKEE DID HIMSELF NO FAVORS WHEN HE TRIED TO MINIMIZE THE DISRUPTION FOR THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DRIVERS WHO HAVE HAD THEIR LIVES AMENDED TRYING TO CROSS THE BRIDGE EVERY DAY.

YOU GUYS ARE A GOOD EXAMPLE.

YOU LIVE ON THE WEST OF THE BRIDGE BUT IT IS AFFECTING YOU IN VARIOUS WAYS.

MIKE, JUST GETTING BACK AND FORTH HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE.

MIKE: IT HAS BEEN A CHALLENGE MATCHES FOR PEOPLE TO PEOPLE LIVING IN EAST PROVIDENCE.

IT IS A DIFFICULT SCENARIO.

EVERYONE WAS HOPING FOR A THREE-MONTH FIX BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THAT IS NOT IN THE WORKS.

EVERYONE IS WORKING HARD TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THROUGH THIS.

THE NEWS WAS NOT THAT GREAT.

I THINK WE NEED TO WAIT.

I THINK THE GOVERNOR IS CLEAR WE ARE WAITING FOR THE STUDIES TO COME OUT TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.

THESE BIG COMMISSIONERS NOT BEEN HELPFUL BECAUSE THE RUMOR MILL ABOUT IT COMING DOWN OR NOT COMING DOWN.

IT IS A PROBLEM FOR THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE EAST BAY OR ON THE EAST SIDE.

LISA: THAT IS TRUE, I CAN TELL YOU.

THERE IS RESIDUAL EVERYWHERE.

JIM: -- THERE IS RESIDUAL EVERYWHERE.

LISA: PEOPLE ARE WORKING FROM HOME AND TRY TO FIGURE IT OUT.

NOW YOU HAVE A TWO LANE BACKUP 195 EAST GOING BACK TO ROUTE 37.

EVEN TO THE AIRPORT, THE BACKUP IS HAPPENING.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE WHO FIGURE OUT THAT ME RIDE LET LANES AND GET OVER SO YOU HAD TO SCOOT OVER.

THERE ARE SO MANY QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED.

FOR THE DIRECTOR OF TRANSPORTATION IN DECEMBER TO SAY TWO MONTHS AGO THE BRIDGE WAS EXPECTED -- WAS INSPECTED, NO PROBLEMS AND NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT TOTAL RECONSTRUCTION?

IT MAKES YOU WONDER HOW THOROUGH THAT INSTRUCTION WAS -- THAT INSPECTION WAS.

JIM: IT DID NOT START WITH PETER ALBINI.

BUT IT MAKES YOU WONDER WHO WAS MINDING THE STORE ALL OF THESE YEARS.

STEVE: PEOPLE COMPLAIN ALL THE TIME BUT THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM AFFECTING PEOPLE’S DAILY LIVES.

AS THIS IT WAS SAYING, A FEW MONTHS AGO IT WAS OKAY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THE YOUNG ENGINEER SHOWS UP, FINDS A TERRIBLE PROBLEM, AND NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SHUTTING IT DOWN?

THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE LEVEL OF INCOMPETENCE.

WE ARE JUST AT THE BEGINNING OF WHAT IS GOING TO BE A LONG PROCESS WITH A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

I THINK SOME PEOPLE’S POLITICAL CAREERS MAY COME TO AN END.

MIKE: THE HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE SAID THEY WILL HAVE SOME HEARINGS.

I THINK THAT WILL BRING SOME TRANSPARENCY.

ANSWER SOME QUESTIONS.

I THINK THE HOUSE IS DOING THE RIGHT THING.

WE STILL HAVE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

IT IS GOOD TO KNOW HOW WE GOT THERE.

LISA: THE COMMUNICATIONS ON THE GOVERNOR AND THE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION HAS BEEN WEAK.

IT IS ALMOST A STUDY OF WHAT NOT TO DO.

WHEN IT STARTED OFF WE LEARNED THEY HAD TO SHUT IT DOWN, THEY DO ON FRIDAY THERE WERE POTENTIAL PROBLEMS.

THEY HAD THE WILL BEGIN TO PUT A PROGRAM IN PLACE.

THEY DID NOT.

IT WAS HAPHAZARD.

FOR THE FIRST FEW DAYS IT WAS ONLY ONE WAY AND THEN THEY FINALLY FIGURED OUT HOW WE CAN MAKE IT TWO WAYS.

THEY ARE SAYING IT IS GOING TO BE THREE MONTHS AND NOW THEY’RE SAYING WE CANNOT GIVE YOU A TIMELINE BECAUSE WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE STUDY.

THE COMMUNICATION HAS BEEN POOR.

JIM: IT DOES NOT ENGENDER CONFIDENCE.

LISA: AND THE EMPATHY, TOO.

WHEN ARE THE STATE REVISITED SAYING WE UNDERSTAND THE PAIN?

IT IS MORE DIMINISHING, YOU ARE ONLY ADDING 10 OR 15 MINUTES TO YOUR COMMUTE.

JIM: THE GOVERNOR LIVES IN CUMBERLAND.

I WOULD INVITE HIM -- WE HAVE A COUPLE OF EXTRA ROOMS IN OUR HOUSE.

HE CAN COME AND BRING THE STATE TROOPER AND GO FROM MY HOUSE EVERYDAY -- MY WIFE WORKS AT RHODE ISLAND HOSPITAL.

IT IS A 15 TO 18 MINUTE DRIVE.

IT IS A 50 MINUTE DRIVE NOW EACH WAY.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT WAS GOING TO THE GOVERNOR’S HEAD.

HE SAID LET’S NOT EXAGGERATE.

IF IT TAKES YOU 20 MINUTES AND NOW IT IS 50, THAT IS EXTRA.

THINK OF ALL OF THE LOST PRODUCTIVITY AND HOURS.

STEVE: HE HAS BEEN TO EAST PROVIDENCE.

JIM: NOT EVERY DAY.

STEVE: HE IS COGNITIVE OF THE BUSINESSES, HE HAS MET WITH PEOPLE.

I THINK HE IS TRYING.

IT IS AN INTRACTABLE SITUATION.

HE DID NOT CREATE THE PROBLEM HE HAS TO DEAL WITH IT.

JIM: YOU WONDER WHERE THE FEDERAL HIGHWAY ADMINISTRATION IS, HOW MANY TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS THEY PUT INTO THAT BRIDGE.

MIKE: THINK HOW MUCH MONEY WE SPEND ON OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES.

OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, 10 YEARS INTO THIS WE HAVE WASHINGTON BRIDGE ON THE VERGE OF FALLING DOWN.

THERE IS SOMETHING VERY WRONG WITH HOW WE ARE MANAGING OUR FUNDS IN THIS STATE WITHOUT ROADS AND BRIDGES.

JIM: IF YOU COULD GIVE THEM ADVICE, WHAT DO YOU THINK WOULD RESTORE SOME CONFIDENCE.

FOR SOME PEOPLE IT HAS ERODED EVEN FROM DECEMBER, WHO IS RUNNING THE SHOW AND WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.

WHAT IS THE MESSAGING THAT SHOULD BE GIVING?

LISA: THEY MADE IT SOUND THIS WEEK LIKE WE ARE QUICK TO PUT OUT TALKING ABOUT THIS BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF REPORTS READING TO COME IN.

THEY’RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY UPDATES.

I’M GLAD THEY PULLED AWAY FROM DOING A TIMELINE BECAUSE PEOPLE WHEN THEY SET THREE-MONTH SAID I CAN DO THAT.

I AM GLAD THEY’RE NOT SAYING IT IS GOING TO TAKE 10 YEARS TO GET THIS BRIDGE DONE.

JIM: BUT IT COULD BE PRETTY LONG IF IT IS A TOTAL REBUILD.

MIKE: WHEN THEY BUILT THE BRIDGE IN THE 1960’S, IT TOOK ALMOST A DECADE.

I DON’T KNOW HOW LONG IT IS GOING TO TAKE, I AM NOT AN ENGINEER, BUT IT DOES NOT SOUND LIKE IT WILL BE DONE IN THE SUMMER.

THE 10 TO 15 MINUTE WAIT, IT IS LIKE A HALF HOUR FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.

THIS IS GOOD TO GO ON FOR YEARS.

I WOULD NOT WANT TO BE RUNNING IN 2026.

STEVE: WE HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE SPECULATIONS OF HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE.

WE NEED A LONG-TERM SOLUTION BUT RIGHT NOW WE HAVE A SHORT-TERM FIX.

WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET PEOPLE OVER THE RIVER.

JIM: BUT NOT THROUGH THE WOODS.

THE OTHER BIG STORY INVOLVING GOVERNOR MCKEE, THE ETHICS COMMISSION DISMISSED A COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM.

THIS GOES BACK TO A DINNER WITH THE SCOUT PEOPLE.

THIS TAKE REPUBLICAN PARTY FILED AN ETHICS COMPLAINT THAT GOT DISMISSED.

I KNOW THERE IS A LOT OF CRITICISM FROM THE GOVERNOR AND THE SPEAKER ABOUT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

JOHN MARION SAID SOMETHING INTERESTING TO ME.

BY THE LAW, IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DISMISSED, BUT THE BEHAVIOR WAS PROBLEMATIC.

STEVE: I RESPECTED THE DECISION OF THE COMMISSION, BUT GOVERNOR MCKEE CAME UP WITH WHAT I CALL THE COOLEST DEFENSE.

DID HE HAVE A LUNCH PAPER BY A LOBBYIST?

HE IS CLAIMING I DID NOT KNOW IT WAS PAID BY THE LOBBYIST.

I LAUGHED AND THOUGHT I WAS TAKING CARE OF.

WHY I FIND THAT SKEPTICAL IS WHEN HE WAS CONFRONTED BY THIS, WHAT WAS HIS REACTION?

IF JET FOR IT -- IF JEFF BRITT WANTS ME TO PAY HIM BACK FOR MY LUNCH, I WILL.

THAT IS NOT SOME EXCELLENT WHO WOULD SAY I THOUGHT MY FINANCE CHAIRMAN.

FOR THIS, THERE MUST BE A MISTAKE.

I HEARD AN INDIFFERENCE.

HE HAS BEEN FINED BY THE ETHICS COMMISSION BEFORE FOR NOT REPORTING A TRIP TO TAIWAN WHEN HE WAS THE 10 GOVERNOR -- LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

THE OTHER THING IS THE BIGGER PICTURE.

THIS IS AN OUT-OF-STATE COMPANY THAT WANTED TO DO BUSINESS IN WHAT DID THEY HAVE TO DO?

THEY HIRED A LOBBYIST, THEY HAD TO GO TO LUNCH TO GIVE DONATIONS TO THE GOVERNOR, THEN THE LOBBYISTS PAID FOR THE LUNCH AND THEN ADMINISTRATION’S OFFICIALS WENT DOWN TO PHILADELPHIA.

AT THE END OF THIS, THERE IS A CONTRACT.

JIM: WHAT WAS TROUBLING FOR ME WAS THE DONATIONS COMING QUICKLY AFTER THE LUNCH.

THAT IS NOT A GOOD LOT -- A GOOD LOOK.

LISA: THE DONATIONS WERE GIVEN AT THE LUNCH.

I WENT BACK TO LOOK AT ANY ARTICLE WHEN IT HAPPENED AND THE CAMPAIGN SPOKESMAN SAID HE DID NOT KNOW IN ADVANCE WHO WOULD BE THERE.

HERE IS THE GOVERNOR LEAVING THE STATE HAS TO GO TO AN EVENT NOT KNOWING WHO IS GOING TO BE THERE?

MAYBE HE DID NOT VIOLATE THE GIFT RULE BECAUSE HE ENDED UP SUPPOSEDLY PAYING FOR IT.

LOOK WHAT HAPPENED HERE.

DURING YOUR WORKDAY HE MADE TO THIS CAMPAIGN PERSON TO MEET WITH LOBBYISTS FOR PEOPLE DOING BUSINESS BEFORE THE STATE AND HE LEAVES TAKING CAMPAIGN DONATIONS.

THAT IS SUCH A BAD LOOK.

IT MAKES PEOPLE CYNICAL ABOUT POLITICS AND HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS.

MIKE: IT IS NOT A GOOD LOOK.

THEY HAD THE HEARING, THEY CAME UP WITH THE DECISION AND WE HAVE TO RESPECT THAT DECISION.

JIM: YOU HAVE SEEN A LOT OF ETHICS CASES.

DID IT SURPRISE YOU?

MIKE: NOT REALLY BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS A GOOD DEFENSE.

JIM: CLUELESS DEFENSE.

MIKE: A LEGITIMATE DEFENSE ADOPTED BY THE ETHICS COMMISSION.

LESSON LEARNED, I THINK.

JIM: ANY FINAL WORD.

LISA: IF THE MEDIA DID NOT REVEAL IT, WOULD THAT LUNCH HAVE BEEN APPROPRIATE PAID FOR?

JIM: A LOT AT THIS -- THAT WAS, YOU HAVE BEEN A CHAMPION OF REFORM OVER THE YEARS.

THIS YEAR, THE WHOLE GETTING OF THE EMAIL OF THE SCOUT TRIP AND ALL OF THAT, ALL OF THIS MIGHT NOT HAVE COME FORWARD AD IT NOT BEEN FOR THE ORIGINAL REPORTING.

AS WE WERE TAPING LAST WEEK COMMITTEE BUDGET HAD BEEN RELEASED.

TO PROPOSED $13.7 BILLION BUDGET.

I WAS LOOKING BACK AT SOME OF OUR SHOWS FROM 2020.

WE WERE TALKING ABOUT A $10 BILLION BUDGET.

WE KNOW A LOT OF THIS IS THE MONEY BEING -- BEGINNING TO DISAPPEAR.

I THOUGHT IT WAS GOING TO BE $1 BILLION LESS.

IT IS $300,000 LESS.

LISA: I’M NOT A MATH MAJOR.

I AM TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE DOLLARS.

IF THE DROP IN FEDERAL FUNDS WAS OVER $7 BILLION, I THOUGHT WHAT WAS THE INFLATION FROM 2020 TO NOW?

WE KEPT HEARING FROM THE GENERALS OF THE FOLKS THAT A LETTER THIS IS ONE TIME SPENDING.

IT IS NOT GOING TO BE ONGOING.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD BE MORE OF A DROP THEN IT IS.

WHAT ARE WE PAYING FOR SINCE 2020 THAT IS GOING TO BE ONGOING?

JIM: THE SPEAKER SAID I WANT TO MAKE AN INVESTMENT, NOT AN EXPENDITURE SO IT WOULD BE ONE TIME NONRECURRING.

YOU WONDER HOW MUCH NOW IS RECURRING.

STEVE: I THINK THERE ARE SOME RESIDUAL FUNDS.

I THINK THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE REALLY HITS.

JIM: WHAT DID YOU THINK?

STEVE: THE LAST BUDGET I VOTED FOR WAS $9 BILLION IN 2018.

IT IS NOT A HUGE NUMBER.

I THOUGHT IT WOULD DROP A LITTLE BIT MORE.

IT IS NOT SEEM TO BE OFFSET BY TAX INCREASES WHICH IS WHAT MAKES ME THINK THERE ARE RESIDUAL FUNDS LEFT OVER.

AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL, THEY’RE MOST CONCERNED ABOUT THE DROP IN SCHOOL AID.

JIM: A COUPLE OF KEY COMMUNITIES ARE LOSING MONEY.

STEVE: THE NUMBER OF KIDS IN THE SYSTEM IS NO LONGER -- JIM: THAT MONEY RUNS OUT NEXT YEAR.

THEY ARE LOSING SCHOOL POPULATION AND THE MONEY FOLLOWS THE KID.

STEVE: IN COVID, THEY KEPT EVERYONE STATUS QUO.

NOW THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION INDICATES THAT IS GOING TO END.

IT MIGHT NOT HAPPEN THIS FISCAL YEAR BUT I THINK IT WILL HAPPEN NEXT FISCAL YEAR.

FROM HIS CITY AND TOWN PERSPECTIVE, THAT IS WHAT YOU’RE MOST AFRAID OF.

THE HAMMER WILL DROP NEXT YEAR WHEN ALL OF HIS RESIDUAL FUNDS RUN OUT.

JIM: CAN YOU REALLY BUDGET?

STEVE: I CAN READ IT BUDGET AT ALL IT DOES IS GROW.

IT NEVER SHRINKS.

EVEN WHEN YOU THINK IT IS SUPPOSED TO SHRINK, IT NEVER SHRINKS AS MUCH AS YOU THOUGHT.

WHEN MONEY IS HERE, WE MAKE COMMITMENTS, WE CREATE PROGRAMS, WE DON’T WANT TO GIVE THEM UP EVEN ONCE THESE BIG IT IS SHUT OFF AND YOU END UP WITH A STRUCTURAL BUDGET DEFICIT.

THEY ARE PREDICTING IT IS GOING TO BE OVER 100 -- HOW WE ARE GOING TO FIX THAT AND IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO BE WE NEED TO HAVE THIS INCREASE, THIS TAX.

WHEN YOU GET MONEY FROM SOMEWHERE IN THE GOVERNMENT, THEY START SPENDING IT AND YOU DON’T WANT TO GIVE UP THAT NEW PROGRAM.

YOU DON’T WANT TO GIVE UP THAT NEW CONCEPT.

MIKE: THE CHALLENGE WITH THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS THERE IS MUCH MORE OF A PROGRESSIVE ELEMENT THAN THERE EVER HAS BEEN.

IT WILL BE DIFFICULT TO MAKE THESE CUTS.

EVEN SINCE I LEFT.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT THE ARGUMENT THERE IS SO MUCH FEDERAL MONEY COMING THROUGH?

SO MUCH OF OUR BUDGET IS MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

AT THE SAME TIME, SOME OF THAT MONEY IS NOT TO BE THERE.

AS STEVE SAID, YOU’RE LOOKING AT A $200 MILLION OR $300 MILLION DEFICIT.

WHY IS IT SO HYPE?

MIKE: WHEN I WAS THERE, HALF OF IT WAS FEDERAL MONEY.

THAT MONEY IS ALWAYS THERE.

THE ISSUE IS ON MEDICAID STUFF, WE HAVE HOSPITALS AND PROVIDERS INDICATING WE NEED TO BOOST OUR RATES.

IT DOES NOT SEEM THAT WAS DONE IN THIS BUDGET.

WE ARE LOSING DOCTORS AND SUPPORT STAFF.

JIM: THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE YEARS AGO.

LISA: I THOUGHT WE WERE GOING TO DO THAT THIS YEAR.

THE GOVERNOR WAS INDICATING WE WOULD LOOK AT THE PRIMARY CARE DOCTOR ISSUE.

I DID NOT SEE THAT COME THROUGH.

THAT IS DISAPPOINTING.

STEVE: THE HEALTH CARE ISSUE IS SOMETHING THAT WILL HIT US HARD IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL INDICATING WE WILL HAVE HOSPITAL CLOSURES, THEY CANNOT GET PEOPLE BECAUSE RATES ARE SO LOW.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO HAVE TO BE LOOKED AT CAREFULLY.

JIM: WHAT ELSE STOOD OUT TO YOU IN THE BUDGET?

LISA: LOOKING AT THE RIPTA ISSUE AND THE SUPPORT THERE.

IF WE WANT TO DO CLIMATE CONTROL ISSUES, WE HAVE TO INCREASE MASS TRANSIT WHICH THAT IS NOT SEEM TO BE THAT EFFORT TO WANT TO GET BEHIND RIPTA.

JIM: TALK ABOUT A ONE-TIME FIX, THEY ARE USING $10 BILLION OF FEDERAL ARBOR MONEY THEY REDIRECTED AND THEY ARE WORRIED ABOUT -- BARBARA -- ARPA MONEY THEY REDIRECTED AND THEY ARE WORRIED USE IT OR LOSE IT.

LISA: GOVERNOR MCKEE, I DON’T KNOW WHAT HIS VISION IS FOR THE STATE.

I THOUGHT HE DID A GREAT JOB WITH THE STATE OF THE STATE SPEECH.

I THOUGHT HE WAS MORE COMMANDING AND COMFORTABLE IN HIS ROLE.

TEAM RHODE ISLAND, IS THAT WITH YOUR VISION FOR THE STATE?

WHERE ARE WE GOING?

I FEEL HE HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO PRESENT -- TO LOOK BROADLY AT THE STATE AND SAY THIS IS MY VISION FOR RHODE ISLAND AND HERE IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO GET THERE.

STEVE: HE IS BASICALLY A BASKETBALL COACH RUNNING THE STATE.

THAT WAS A GOOD SWITCH.

TEAM RHODE ISLAND, WE ARE ALTOGETHER.

BUT IN THE END, RA-RA IS NOT 20TH -- NOT GOING TO FIX OUR BRIDGES AND OUR PROGRAMS.

MIKE: HE IS PUTTING MONEY FOR A NEW CENTER, PUTTING MORE MONEY IN INVESTMENT.

I DO THINK ECONOMIC GROWTH WILL COME WITH A BETTER EDUCATION SYSTEM.

SETTING A GOAL BY 2030, THAT IS A ADMIRABLE GOAL.

WE NEED TO GET THERE.

THE QUESTION IS IF WE HAVE A LEGISLATURE THAT WANTS TO GET THERE AS WELL.

JIM: YOU ARE THERE FOR THE STANDARDIZED TEST, NON-STANDARDIZED TEST.

MIKE: TEACHER EVALUATIONS EVERY YEAR, NOT EVERY YEAR.

PUTTING THAT GOAL OUT THERE BY THE GOVERNOR IS SOMETHING WE SHOULD ALL BE GETTING BEHIND.

IN THE LONG TERM THAT WILL MAKE US A BETTER STATE.

LISA: IT IS ONE THING TO STATE A GOAL, ANOTHER THING TO HAVE A PLAN TO GET THERE.

WE HAVE SIX YEARS TO GET THERE AND I DON’T KNOW IF THE PLAN IS TO GET KIDS BACK IN SCHOOL AND A 365 AFTERSCHOOL PROVIDING ACTIVITIES.

WE NEED TO ROLL UP OUR SLEEVES AND GET INTO THE CLASSROOMS AND FIND OUT WHY OUR TEST SCORES ARE SO LOW.

WHAT CAN WE BE DOING TO ADDRESS THOSE RATHER THEN HERE ARE SOME AFTERSCHOOL ACTIVITIES AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE YOUR ATTENDANCE IS THERE IN THE CLASSROOM.

MIKE: IT IS NOT THE CHESS CLUB.

JIM: WHAT ABOUT WHEN THAT MONEY RUNS OUT?

MIKE: THAT IS THE CONCERN ABOUT CITIES AND TOWNS.

IF WE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT IMPROVING EDUCATION AND WE HAVE SOME RESULTS FROM THIS PROGRAM, THE LEGISLATURE AND THE GOVERNOR BUT WE HAVE TO HAVE THE.

COMMITMENT TO DO THAT JIM: -- COMMITMENT TO DO THAT.

JIM: LOCALLY FUNDED WITH STATE-FUNDED?

IT IS LIKE PUTTING IT ON A CREDIT CARD AND UNDERSTAND IT IS APRIL BUILDING, YOU WANT TO PAY THE MERGE OFF -- THE MORTGAGE OFF.

WE ARE GOING TO BONDING.

STEVE: I’M NOT A FAN OF DEBT.

ALTHOUGH SOME DEBTS WELL ENOUGH DOES NOT MEAN YOU HAVE TO TAKE OFF MORE DEBT -- TAKE ON MORE DEBT.

IT MAY BE WISER TO TAKE A BREAK ON SOME OF THESE THINGS.

TO BE MORE MONEY TO SPEND ON DEBT MEANS LESS MONEY YOU CAN SPEND ON EDUCATION FOR CERTAIN THINGS, REGULAR RECURRING OPERATING EXPENSES.

THERE IS ALWAYS A TRADE-OFF AND YOU HAVE TO PRIORITIZE.

JIM: WE TOOK OUT $250 MILLION BONDS FOR SCHOOL RECONSTRUCTION.

THAT IS A QUESTION FOR THE TREASURER, BUT WE HAVE HAD -- WE HAVE HAD SUCH A HIGH DEBT LEVEL, WOULDN’T IT BE NICE TO SAY WE DON’T HAVE THAT MUCH TO PAY OFF?

LISA: THAT WOULD BE GREAT BUT WE HAVE SAID A MILLION TIMES THAT VOTERS ALWAYS APPROVE THE BOND ISSUES.

JIM: THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS GONE DOWN?

THE HERITAGE HALL MUSEUM.

IT WENT DOWN IN A FLAMING MESS.

LISA: A LOT OF PROMOTION ON THE BOND ISSUE, ALL OF THE WONDERFUL THINGS IT IS GOOD TO ACCOMPLISH, THE FINE PRINT THAT SAYS HOW MUCH THE DEBT IS GOING TO BE WHICH IS PRETTY SIGNIFICANT WHEN YOU LOOK AT $350 MILLION OF WHAT ISSUE.

VOTERS THINK IT IS FREE MONEY, IT IS LIKE FREE MONEY.

MIKE: IF IT IS ON THE BALLOT, WE MUST BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT.

JIM: LAW-ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS BILL OF RIGHTS.

THE SPEAKER SAID THEY RAN OUT OF% TIME.

CLEARLY IT WAS NOT A PRIORITY HE NEEDED TO GET IT ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.

THE NEWS IS THE SENATE HAS A BILL WITH SOME SIGNIFICANT CHANGES.

YOU DEAL WITH MUNICIPAL LAW ALL THE TIME.

WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE CHANGES?

MIKE: ONE OF THE BENEFITS IS THEY EXTENDED THE AMOUNT OF TIME FROM THREE DAYS TO 14 DAYS.

JIM: WITHOUT PAY.

MIKE: WITHOUT PAY.

I THINK IT SHOULD BE HIGHER THAN THAT BUT AT LEAST 14 SEEMS MORE REASONABLE THAN THREE.

THE SENATE BILL ALSO EXPANDS THE PENALTY LITTLE BIT.

IT PUTS A FORMER RETIRED JUDGE OR CURRENT JUDGE OF THE SUPERIOR COURT.

A LOT OF THE EVIDENCE AND LEGAL ISSUES AND ARGUMENTS THAT IT IS BUSILY A PANEL OF POLICE OFFICERS.

JIM: THREE OFFICERS PLUS -- MIKE: PLUS THE JUDGE.

LISA: NONVIOLENCE.

MIKE: THE NONVIOLENCE INSTITUTE.

I AM NOT SURE THE SPECIFICS ABOUT THAT.

HAVING A JUDGE WOULD HELP EXPEDITE THE PROCESS, GET THE LEGAL ISSUES DECIDED.

A JUDGE INSTEAD OF A PANEL OF POLICE OFFICERS THAT DON’T HAVE EXPERIENCE.

THE PROBLEM IS A GROUP IN THE HOUSE THAT WANTS TO GET RID OF THE BILL ALTOGETHER.

JIM: THAT I NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

MIKE: THE HOUSE BEING MORE PROGRESSIVE THAN THE SENATE, I DON’T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

THOSE ARE GOOD STEPS THE SENATE HAS TAKEN AND IT IS A GOOD STARTING POINT.

HOPEFULLY THEY CAN COMPROMISE.

IT DEFINITELY NEEDS REPORT.

LISA: WHEN YOU HAVE THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AS A SPONSOR OF THE BILL, IT HAS MORE BUSH GOING FORWARD.

WE WILL HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON THE HOUSE SIDE.

IT ALSO ALLOWS MORE TRANSPARENCY, ALLOWING THE CHIEF OF POLICE TO SPEAK MORE FREELY ABOUT THE INCIDENT OR ALLEGED INCIDENT AND POTENTIALLY RELEASE VIDEOS.

SUMMARY BODY CAMERA VIDEOS -- SO MANY BODY CAMERA VIDEOS.

WE NEED MOVEMENT.

THE PUBLIC WANTS MORE TRANSPARENCY, MORE UNDERSTANDING OF HOW LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES THEIR WORK.

I WAS GOING TO THE BILL -- THROUGH THE BILL.

WHEN WE HAD POLICE OFFICERS OUT ON LEAVE, THAT GOES BEYOND 180 DAYS.

JIM: AND THE PAYCHECK DOESN’T STOP.

LISA: YEAH.

MAYBE THAT IS TAKING TOO MUCH OF TO DO RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT STRUCK ME THAT THAT DOES NOT SEEM RIGHT.

A POLICE OFFICER CAN BE HOME FOR A YEAR OR A TWO.

STEVE: I AM ON THE CAMP THAT IS GOING TO SURPRISE SOME PEOPLE BUT I WROTE A COLUMN IN OPPOSITION TO LEAVE BOARD.

IT IS NOT EXIST IN MOST STATES.

THIS STATE, WE HAVE HAD IT.

IT DOES NEED CHANGING, BUT THERE SHOULD NOT BE A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE ON THIS POLICE OFFICERS.

POLICE OFFICERS ALREADY HAD CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTIONS THAT ALREADY HAVE CIVIL SERVICE PROTECTIONS.

THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE ABLE TO TALK ABOUT WHAT OCCURS.

UNDER THE CURREN LAW, YOU CANNOT BASICALLY.

YOU NEED MORE FLEXIBILITY FOR BASICALLY OF THE JOB WITHOUT PAY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF ABUSES HERE.

THEY HAVE CREPT UP OVER TIME.

THERE ARE EXAMPLES OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE SOMETHING WRONG, POLICE OFFICES, AND THEY ARE ON THE PAYABLES INDEFINITELY.

THEY ARE JUDGED BY A MAJORITY OF FELLOW POLICE OFFICERS AND THE MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENT CANNOT TALK ABOUT IT.

IT IS RIDICULOUS.

JIM: THE 14 DAYS IS GOING TO HELP.

THERE ARE THINGS -- 14 DAYS SENDS A MESSAGE AND I THINK A LOT OF THE CHIEFS ARE LIKE I DON’T WANT TO GO TWO DAYS.

WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME.

LET ME GET TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

LISA: DONALD TRUMP CAN BE OUTRAGES IN SO MANY WAYS, BUT HERE WE GO AFTER HE WON IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

INSTEAD OF BEING GRACIOUS ON HIS VICTORY SPEECH, HE HAD TO GO EVER -- GO AFTER NIKKI HALEY AND THEN BRING UP THE DRESS SHE WAS WEARING AND SAYING A FANCY DRESS, NOT SO FANCY.

PROBABLY THINKING OF WHAT HIS WIFE WEARS.

HERE WE ARE INTO THE MID-21ST CENTURY AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WOMEN WEAR?

WE DON’T HEAR ABOUT WHAT MEN WEAR.

AGAIN, OUTREACH.

JIM: YEP.

STEVE?

STEVE: WE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT THE BRIDGE.

THAT WOULD BE MY OUTREACH -- OUTRAGE EVERY WEEK.

JIM: STEVE TOLD ME YOU NEED TO FIND A WAY FOR EVERYBODY TO HAVE ANY OUTRAGE UNTIL THEY FIX THAT BRIDGE.

THAT COULD BE 10 YEARS.

[LAUGHTER] STEVE: OUR POLITICAL SYSTEM HAS RESULTED IN THE TWO PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEES BEING TWO UNPOPULAR PEOPLE.

AROUND THE AGE OF 80, 1 OF WHOM IS LIKELY TO BE HEADED TOWARD ASSISTED LIVING AND ONE WHO IS LIKELY TO BE LED TO A CONVICTION IN COURT.

I DON’T KNOW WHAT IS WRONG WITH OUR SYSTEM BUT IT IS A MAJOR DISAPPOINTMENT.

JIM: 350 MILLION PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE CANNOT DO BETTER THAN THIS.

HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE SAYING THAT ON BOTH SIDES?

MIKE: IT LOOKS LIKE THE U.S. SENATE IS ON THE VERGE OF FINALLY GETTING SOME BIPARTISAN RESULTS ON IMMIGRATION REFORM.

THEY WORKED REALLY HARD OVER THE LAST SIX MONTHS, ONLY TO BE TOLD THAT THE HOUSE DOES NOT WANT TO TAKE IT UP BECAUSE TRUMPETS TELLING THEM NOT TO.

THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS.

BOTH PARTIES HAVE RECOGNIZED IMMIGRATION IS A PROBLEM, THE PROBLEM AT THE BORDER SEEMS TO BE GETTING WORSE.

WE NEED SOME SOLUTIONS.

BECAUSE OF POLITICS, IT IS GOING TO BE STYMIED.

JIM: I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE, BIDEN SEEMS TO BE SO BEHIND THE CURB -- BEHIND THE CURVE.

EVERYBODY AGREES, YOU SEE THESE PEOPLE COMING ACROSS THE BORDERS AND NOW CHICAGO AND BOSTON AND NEW YORK ARE OVERRUN.

WHY HASN’T HE -- IF FOR NO OTHER REASON THEN TO TAKE THE ISSUE AWAY FROM THE REPUBLICANS, WHY WASN’T HE WORKING ON THIS SIX MONTHS AGO?

TO PUT MONEY INTO IT, ENFORCEMENT, ALL OF THAT?

MIKE: I THINK HE TRIED TO PUT THE HOUSE WANTS TO GIVE THIS ISSUE ALIVE.

THE SENATE HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MORE REASONABLE BRANCH IN THIS REGARD, BUT HE COULD HAVE DONE A BETTER JOB ON THE BULLY PULPIT.

HE HAS A PROBLEM WITH THE MORE CONSERVATIVE HOUSE IN THAT BUSY THIS IS A WINNING ISSUE FOR REPUBLICANS AND THEY DON’T WANT TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

JIM: 15 SECONDS.

STEVE: THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE WERE CONTROLLED BY REPUBLICANS AND WHAT DID THEY DO ON THE BORDER?

ZERO.

JIM: THEY COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING AT LEAST -- NOT A HOMERUN.

WE WILL TALK AFTERWARDS.

IT ALWAYS GOES QUICKLY.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

STEVE, MIKE, AND LISA, WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANK YOU FOR COMING.

COME BACK NEXT WEEK.

WE WILL HAVE ALL THE NEWS AND ANALYSIS AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT " CONTINUES.

HOPE YOU HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.

[CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR OVER 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.