[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] JIM: COMING UP ON OUR LATEST "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT," GOVERNOR MCKEE LAYS OUT HIS PRIORITY FOR THE YEAR IN PRIORITY AND SPENDING -- IN POLICY AND SPENDING.

WE LOST A MEMBER OF THE "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" FAMILY THIS WEEK.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I'’M JOHN AZEN WHITE, JR. FOR 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

JIM: JOINING US ON THE PANEL, BILL BARTHOLOMEW, FOUNDER OF THE BARTHOLOMEW PODCAST.

ANTONIA FARZAN.

POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR DON ROACH.

WELCOME TO "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" AND WHAT TURNED OUT TO BE A BUSY WEEK AT THE STATEHOUSE.

GOVERNOR MCKEE LEE TO BE FRAMEWORK FOR WHAT HE HOPES TO GET DONE THIS YEAR AND A STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS TUESDAY NIGHT.

THURSDAY AFTERNOON HE RELEASED A PROPOSED $13.7 BILLION BUDGET FOR NEXT YEAR.

IT INCLUDES MODERATE TAX RELIEF AND MORE MONEY FOR STAFF TO OVERSEE THE CONSTRUCTION OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND TAKE CARE OF THE STATE'’S HOMELESS POPULATION.

HERE'’S SOME OF WHAT THE GOVERNOR HAD TO SAY TUESDAY.

GOV.

MCKEE: I AM PROUD TO SAY WOULD ADD THAT IS READY.

WE ARE READY TO RAISE INCOME ACROSS OUR STATE.

WE ARE READY TO INCREASE EDUCATION OUTCOMES FOR STUDENTS.

WE ARE READY TO BUILD A HEALTHY RHODE ISLAND.

WE ARE READY TO ENSURE THAT EVERYONE BENEFITS FROM THIS WORK.

FIRST, LET'’S REDUCE RHODE ISLAND'’S SALES TAX.

RHODE ISLAND IS TIED FOR THE SECOND-HIGHEST STATE SALES TAX IN THE COUNTRY.

WE ARE READY TO CHANGE THAT.

RHODE ISLAND'’S SALES TAX WAS INCREASED DURING THE BANKING CRISIS WITH A PROMISE IT WOULD BE REDUCED WHEN WE WERE BACK ON SOLID FINANCIAL GROUND.

THAT PROMISE WAS NEVER CAP.

NOW -- NEVER KEPT.

NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE IT RIGHT.

RHODE ISLAND, IT IS OUR TIME.

WE HAVE MOMENTUM AND WE KEEP UP THE DETERMINATION WE DISPLAYED DURING THE PANDEMIC, WE WILL BE READY TO EMBRACE THIS SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY AHEAD.

WE HAVE THE TOOLS.

WITH ALL OF US WORKING TOGETHER, WE HAVE THE TEAM TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

LET'’S GO RIGHT -- WRITE OUR STATE'’S NEXT CHAPTER.

JIM: BILL, WHAT WAS THE ATMOSPHERE LIKE?

ANTONIA: THERE WAS -- BILL: THERE WAS SOME BUZZ BEFORE THE SPEECH BUT DURING THE SPEECH THERE WAS NOT TOO MUCH ADRENALINE.

A PRETTY DISPLAYED -- A PRETTY SUBDUED ASSEMBLY AND AUDIENCE OVERALL.

WHAT WE HEARD WAS A PRETTY MODERATE CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATIC AGENDA FROM THE GOVERNOR.

SOME OF THE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS OR EVEN THE LEFT-LEANING CENTRISTS WERE NOT TOO EXCITED ABOUT IT.

YOU GOT THE SENSE EVEN THOUGH HE DELIVERED A CONFIDENT ADDRESS, IT WAS NOT THE PERFORMANCE PEOPLE WERE LOOKING FOR.

JIM: WHEN DID YOU THINK?

DON: UNINSPIRED IS PROBABLY THE WORD I WOULD USE.

JIM: LET'’S PUT IT ON THE TABLE, DAN MCKEE IS NOT BARACK OBAMA.

DON: TAKE AWAY HIS STYLE, THE CONTENT WAS NOT INSPIRING.

WE HAVE A 7% SALES TAX AND HE IS PROPOSING RELIEF THAT WOULD SAVE RHODE ISLANDERS $77 A YEAR.

THAT IS NOT VERY INSPIRING.

THE WORD YOU USED WAS MODEST.

I WOULD SAY VERY MINIMAL.

IT IS NOT EVEN MODEST.

THE PROGRESSIVES AREN'’T HAPPY, THE CONSERVATIVES AREN'’T HAPPY.

HE IS ABLE TO BE THAT MODERATE VOICE I GUESS.

JIM: WE KNOW THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY, WHAT GETS PROPOSED AND WHAT IS GOING TO HAVE BEEN THE SAUSAGE GRINDER WILL CHANGE.

ANTONIA: IT DOESN'’T SEEM LIKE THE SALES TAX PROPOSAL, NO ONE IS EXCITED.

YOU HAVE ON THE RIGHT PEOPLE SAYING THIS ISN'’T CHANGING VERY MUCH.

ON THE LEFT YOU GET PEOPLE SAYING IF WE HAVE A SURPLUS, WHY AREN'’T WE USING IT TO FUND PROGRAMS THAT NEED MORE FUNDING.

JIM: SUE'’S YANKEE WHO HAS BEEN ON THIS PANEL IMMEDIATELY PUT THE CLIP FROM THE DEBATES WHERE -- I WONDER WITH ALL OF THIS INFLUX OF FEDERAL MONEY, WHERE IT REALLY IS THE BUDGET?

NOW WE SEE IT GOES UP EVEN MORE.

DURING THE DEBATES THE GOVERNOR SAID ANYBODY WHO KNOWS BUDGETING KNOWS IT IS GOING TO GO DOWN.

EXPECTED TO BE $11 BILLION OR $12 BILLION.

NOW WE SEE IT IS $13.7 BILLION.

WE WONDER IF THAT IS SUSTAINABLE.

DON: YOU DO HAVE TO WONDER THAT.

THIS MAY BE BIASED, BUT I DON'’T KNOW OF ANY DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR THAT WOULD REDUCE THE BUDGET.

DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES HAVE BEEN SAYING THEY ARE GOING TO REDUCE THE BUDGET BUT WHEN IS THE LAST TIME THAT HAPPENED?

I DID NOT EXPECT ANYTHING MORE THAN WHAT WE GOT.

BILL: THAT IS A FAIR POINT.

THE BUDGET LAST YEAR INCLUDED A LOT FEDERAL DOLLARS.

WE ARE IN AN UNUSUAL TIME SO IT IS TOUGH TO COMPARE AND CONTRAST.

IT IS NOT LIKE THE BUDGET BALLOONED TO 20 MAN DOLLARS.

JIM: BUT IT WAS AT THE $.5 MILLION -- $9.4 BILLION FOUR YEARS AGO.

BILL: VERY TRUE.

POLICIES ARE GOING TO EXPAND THE REQUIRED DOLLARS.

IN THE ROOM THERE WAS WHISPERING OF THERE ARE A LOT OF PROGRAMS WE HAVE TO FIND.

AS A RESULT, WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM?

DON: WHAT IS BAD IS WITH THE SURPLUS, YOU ARE NOT SEEING A LOT OF DOLLARS GO BACK TO RHODE SLAND RESIDENTS.

VERY MODEST AMOUNTS.

THAT TO ME SEEMS UNFAIR TO THE TAXPAYERS.

JIM: IF YOU DO THE CALCULATION, IF YOU BUY SOMETHING FOR $5,000, YOU SAVE EGHT DOLLARS.

IF YOU BUY A 25,000 DOLLARS CAR, YOU SAVE $40.

I DID NOT SEE THIS YEAR WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS AND THEN THE NEXT YEAR -- I DID NOT SEE THAT.

DO YOU THINK PEOPLE WERE WAITING FOR THE BIG IDEA?

ANTONIA: ABSOLUTELY.

HAVE NOT ANNOUNCED A PLAN FOR FUTURE YEARS, SAYING WE'’LL SEE HOW IT GOES.

WPRI HAD OF THE DATA IT WOULD ADD UP TO $77 PER YEAR.

YOU ARE NOT REALLY GOING TO FEEL THAT OVER THE COURSE OF A YEAR.

DON: THE FOUR OF US COULD GO TO THE MOVIES, BUT WE CANNOT BUY POPCORN.

JIM: HE INCLUDED THE MONEY FOR ABORTION, STATE SUBSIDIZED.

BISHOP TOBIN WAS TWEETING AGAINST THAT.

IT LOOKS LIKE THEY HAVE THE VOTES FOR THAT.

DO YOU SEE A BATTLE ON THAT WHAT YOU THINK IT WILL BE A PUSHBACK?

BILL: I ASKED THE SPEAKER ON THE FLOOR IF YOU HAVE THE VOTES AND THEY SAID WE WILL SEE.

WHAT KIND OF TRADING IS GOING TO TAKE PLACE?

THAT IS THE DANGLING CARROT LEADERSHIP HAS FOR THE EXPANDING CAUCUS AND THE MODERATE CAUCUS THAT WOULD WANT TO SEE THIS GO THROUGH.

I DON'’T KNOW THAT THE SPEAKER KNOWS NOT ONLY ON ACCESS TO ABORTION BUT A LOT OF THESE POLICIES IF HE HAS THE VOTES.

IT IS A COMBINATION OF A SMALL BUT VOCAL CONSERVATIVE BLOCK AND A LOT OF PROGRESSIVES THAT MIGHT TRY TO THROW A MENSCH INTO THIS BUDGET.

JIM: EARLY ON IT WAS JUST ONE ONLINE.

HE SAID LET'’S PASS SENSIBLE AND CONTROL LEGISLATION.

LAST YEAR IT WAS UVALDE THAT DROVE IT.

NOBODY WAS THINKING ABOUT GUN CONTROL.

EVERY YEAR SEE OPPOSITE SIDES GETTING TO THE STATEHOUSE.

THIS IS A YEAR THAT MIGHT GET LOST IN THE LONG RUN OR DO YOU THINK OF GUN CONTROL WILL BE ON THE FRONT BURNER?

ANTONIA: WE WILL SEE.

THE ACA CAME UP AND THERE WAS PRESSURE TO DO SOMETHING IN RESPONSE TO IT.

I WOULD NOT BE SHOCKED IF THERE IS ANOTHER SHOOTING.

IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME.

THERE COULD BE SOMETHING THAT DRIVES IT BACK INTO THE NEWS.

JIM: WHAT ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO BE LOOKING AT FOR THE SESSION?

DON: FOCUSING ON THE TAXPAYER.

WHETHER IT IS ABORTION FUNDING OR SENSIBLE GUN CONTROL, CAN WE JUST TALK ABOUT PEOPLE AND THE IMPACT INFLATION HAS HAD ON TAXPAYERS?

THAT IS WHAT I WOULD LIKE THE FOCUS TO BE ON.

JIM: YOU SEE OTHER STATES CUTTING CHECKS, EVEN MASSACHUSETTS.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT WE HAVE $600 MILLION.

TODAY KNOW THE OUT YEARS COULD BE TOUGH, BUT THAT IS OUR MONEY, RIGHT?

WHY AREN'’T WE GETTING THAT BACK?

THE ARGUABLE ARGUING $100 MILLION OF TAX CUTS SO THE CUT GOES FROM 400 TO 375.

THE GAS TAX IS ELIMINATING ANY INCREASE, IT IS NOT LIKE IT IS GOING TO GO DOWN.

WHAT WILL YOU SUGGEST IF YOU WERE IN HIS CHAIR AND COULD WAVE THE MAGIC WAND?

DON: I WOULD DEFINITELY LOWER THE SALES TAX SIGNIFICANTLY.

5% WOULD GIVE US AN ADVANTAGE AND PEOPLE WOULD FEEL IT.

IT WOULD INSPIRE PEOPLE TO COME TO RHODE ISLAND VERSUS GOING TO MASSACHUSETTS OR CONNECTICUT AS THEY SOMETIMES DO.

THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE RHODE ISLANDERS FEEL LIKE THEY GOVERNOR IS LISTENING.

HE IS PROPOSING SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT.

JIM: HOUSING.

JOSH SOUL HAD A SHORT TENURE.

STEFEN PRYOR, THE WORST KEPT SECRET THAT HE WOULD BE BROUGHT BACK FOR HOUSING SECRETARY.

HE SEEMS LIKE AN INTRIGUING FIT.

BILL: I THINK HE IS THE RIGHT FIT.

YOU COULD ARGUE THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM THE ADVOCATE COMMUNITY, PEOPLE FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR THAT COULD STEP UP.

THE NUMBER ONE THING THAT CAUSED THE FALL OF SAUL WAS HIS INABILITY TO COMMUNICAE IN FRONT OF THE MEDIA AND INTERNALLY WITHIN THE VERY NUANCED PLAYERS IN THIS FIELD WHICH INCLUDES ADVOCATES, PEOPLE ON HOUSED, PEOPLE IN THE BANKING SECTOR, PEOPLE IN THE POLITICAL SECTOR, PUTTING THAT ALTOGETHER.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT STEFEN PRYOR WILL BE QUALIFIED TO DO.

HE'’S COMING TO FAVOR IN THE GOVERNOR MCKEE ADMINISTRATION AND THEY WILL NOT BE THIS CLOUD OF WHO IS THIS GUY.

HE IS A FREE AGENT AND IT MAKES SENSE TO COORDINATE THIS EFFORT.

JIM: WE WERE TALKING BEFORE WE CAME ON, WHERE THE GOVERNOR MCKEE APPOINTED HIM, WE DID NOT KNOW A LOT ABOUT HIM OR WHAT HIS BACKGROUND WAS.

I WONDER IF THAT LED TO SOME OF THE EXECUTION PROBLEMS.

ANTONIA: ABSOLUTELY.

HE WAS COMING FROM NEW YORK, FROM THE DE BLASIO ADMINISTRATION.

HE CAME UP WITH THIS ORGANIZATIONAL PLAN SAYING ALL THESE DESPAIRS PLAYERS SHOULD BE BROUGHT UNDER HIS OFFICE.

BASICALLY SAYING YOU SHOULD ALL BE WORKING UNDER ME WHICH I AM SURE DID NOT MAKE HIM FRIENDS.

I WILL BE CURIOUS TO SEE IF STEFEN PRYOR GOES THROUGH WITH THAT PLAN.

JOSH SAUL HAD A GOOD POINT, HE WAS SAYING WE ARE FRAGMENTED HERE.

THAT IS SLOWING DOWN BUILDING HOUSING, OUR EFFECTIVENESS.

JIM: WE KNOW THAT MONEY DOES NOT ALWAYS SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

YOU HAVE $250 MILLION FOR HOUSING BUT DID NOT SEEM LIKE ANYTHING WAS GOING.

IT IS LIKE THEY SAID WE GAVE YOU THE MONEY, WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH IT?

ANTONIA: ABSOLUTELY.

DON: BILL MENTIONED WHY STEFEN PRYOR IS THE RIGHT GUY.

WHAT I DID NOT HEAR IS THAT HE IS GOING TO BRING INNOVATION.

I MORE HEARD IS HE KNOWS THE RIGHT PEOPLE, HE CAN SPEAK TO THE MEDIA.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN ANYTHING IS GOING TO GET DONE.

IT SEEMS LIKE SAUL PROPOSED SOMETHING SENSIBLE BUT HARD TO DO WHICH IS BRING GOVERNMENT AGENCIES UNDER ONE UMBRELLA SO WE ACTUALLY FUNCTION MORE EFFICIENTLY.

IN RHODE ISLAND WE HAVE LOTS OF DIFFERENT FIEFDOMS.

I HOPE WE CENTRALIZE THINGS BUT I DON'’T EXPECT ANYTHING MORE FROM SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS HOW RHODE ISLAND POLITICS WORK.

I HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING DIFFERENT.

JIM: THAT IS A FAIR POINT.

IN RHODE ISLAND, IN THE FIEFDOMS, 39 CITIES AND TOWNS.

A LOT OF THIS COMES DOWN TO MUNICIPAL ZONING AND HOW ANY APPROACHES TAKEN ON SHORT-TERM RENTALS AND STUDENT HOUSING AND TAX INCENTIVES.

JIM: AND USE OF OLD BUILDINGS.

BILL: USE OF ALL THE BUILDINGS.

I AGREE.

THERE IS A NEED FOR INNOVATION AND LOOK AT OLD MILL BUILDINGS, OLD SCHOOL BUILDINGS.

PEOPLE WILL LIVE IN TINY -- IN OTHER WAYS.

TINY HOUSES.

ANTONIA: OLD CHURCHES.

BILL: ABSOLUTELY.

LET'’S INNOVATE.

LET'’S THINK OF WAYS TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM IN A WAY THAT HAS NOT BEEN THOUGHT OF.

WE NEED THAT INNOVATION.

AT THE SAME TIME, YOU NEEDED THE CONNECTOR, WHOEVER THE TOWN MANAGER IS.

AND SAY, HOW TO ADVANCE THE BALL IN THIS MEANINGFUL WAY?

JIM: IN MY TOWN, THEY MOTHBALLED A COUPLE OF SCHOOLS BECAUSE THE PROVISION GOES UP AND DOWN.

THEY WERE ON THE ORIGINAL BILL WAS A HALF TO PUT IT ON THE REGISTRY.

THE STATE IS GOING TO COME IN AND THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT AVAILABLE.

THE LEAGUE OF CITIES AND TOWNS WENT BALLISTIC AND WROTE THAT OUT.

THAT IS GOING TO BE THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS IN THAT NOT ALL SIZES FIT ALL.

IT SOUNDS GREAT ON PAPER, LET'’S USE VACANT BUILDINGS BUT THE LOCAL PUSHBACK WILL BE A PROBLEM.

ANTONIA: I WAS TALKING TO THE SPONSOR OF THE BUILDING YOU MENTIONED, MEGAN,.

SHE SAID -- MEGAN COMMON.

SHE SAT THERE INTRIGUING THAT AND LOOKING AT IT MORE LIKE A LAND BANK.

THAT IS A CHALLENGE, YOU HAVE PUSHBACK COMING FROM TOWNS.

THAT IS PART OF THE ISSUE.

JEFF SOLACE WHO IS COMING -- JOSH SAUL WHO WAS COMING FROM THE OUTSIDE DID NOT SMOOTH HIS PATH.

JIM: DID YOU GET THE SENSE HE DID NOT STICK THAT OUT OR THERE WAS AN IMMEDIATE BIAS, HE IS NOT AROUND -- HE IS NOT FROM AROUND HERE.

DID THAT LEAD TO HIS FALL?

ANTONIA: IT IS PROBABLY.

A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH THE GOVERNOR SAID THERE WAS NOT GOOD COMMUNICATION.

BUT PEOPLE ARE SKEPTICAL OF OUTSIDERS.

WHEN YOU BRING SOMEONE FROM OUTSIDE, YOU PUT THEM IN A TOUGH SPOT, JUMPING INTO THIS LANDSCAPE THAT HAS DIFFERENT PLAYERS AND INTEREST GROUPS AND SAY FIX THIS PROBLEM.

JIM: THE HOMELESS PROBLEM EVERY YEAR, IT PLAYED OUT ON THE FRONT STEPS OF THE STATEHOUSE.

MONEY DOES NOT SOLVE ALL THINGS BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GET ENOUGH PEOPLE TO RUN THE ARMORY.

AFFORDABLE HOUSING IS ONE CHUNK OF IT BUT HOMELESSNESS ALSO IS AND THAT IS NOT GOING AWAY.

DON: HOMELESSNESS IS A PROBLEM THAT HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE DAWN OF TIME.

I WISH I HAD A SOLUTION FOR IT.

IT FELT LIKE WHAT HAPPENED AT THE STATEHOUSE WAS A STAIN ON EVERYBODY INVOLVED.

IT IS A SAD PROBLEM.

WE HAVE $250 MILLION, WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MAKE SOME KIND OF A DENT.

IF WE CANNOT MAKE SOME KIND OF A DENT, THAT IS TERRIBLE.

SAUL DID NOT JUST START SPENDING THE MONEY WHICH IS WHAT MOST PEOPLE IN HIS POSITION -- JIM: GET IT OUT THE DOOR.

DON: RIGHT, THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THAT.

JIM: KEEP AN EYE ON THE NURSING HOME INDUSTRY.

IT IS FACING A LOT OF ISSUES.

SET THE TABLE ON WHAT THE INDUSTRY IS BUMPING UP AGAINST THIS LEGISLATION AND THE ECONOMICS.

ANTONIA: BACK IN 2021, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY PASSED A LAW THEY GIVE RHODE ISLAND THE HIGHEST STANDARDS IN THE COUNTRY FOR NURSING HOME STAFFING.

THERE'’S A LOT OF RESEARCH THAT COORDINATES SAFETY AND WELL-BEING.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT THERE IS A LABOR SHORTAGE.

THERE IS AN INDUSTRYWIDE CRISIS AND THE NURSING HOMES HAVE BEEN SAYING WE DON'’T HAVE ENOUGH PEOPLE, WE CANNOT COMPLY WITH THAT LAW.

WE SHOULD BE FINDING OUT ANY DAY NOW WHAT THE BILL IS ACTUALLY GOING TO LOOK LIKE AND FINES FOR NURSING HOMES NOT ACTUALLY IN COMPLIANCE.

LAST TIME I CHECKED, THEY HAVE NOT GOTTEN THAT BILL YET BUT THEY WERE RACKING UP FINES IN THE SECOND HALF OF 2022.

THE ESTIMATE I GOT FROM THE INDUSTRY GROUP IS A $12 MILLION JUST FOR THE THIRD QUARTER.

JIM: WHO WAS DRIVING THAT BILL?

WAS IT THE UNION TRIED TO MAKE SURE THEY WERE STAFFED?

AND THE RATIO OF WORKERS TO PATIENTS?

ANTONIA: IT WAS A COALITION OF GROUPS.

YOU HAD GROUPS THAT ADVOCATE, THAT IS PART OF IT.

THE UNION REPRESENTS WORKERS FROM AROUND VIOLENT -- FROM AROUND RHODE ISLAND.

JIM: IF YOU ARE A NURSING HOME OWNER, A LOT RELIES ON MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENT.

THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH MONEY TO PLAY WITH.

WHAT THEY ARE CLAIMING, WE CANNOT WORK -- WE CANNOT MAKE THIS WORK FINANCIALLY?

ANTONIA: YES, THEY ARE SAYING THEY CANNOT RAISE THE PRICES BECAUSE THAT COMES FROM MEDICAID.

THE INDUSTRY AND THE UNION AGREE MEDICAID IS NOT PAYING ENOUGH.

JIM: YOU WONDER WHERE THE NURSING HOME INDUSTRY IS GOING TO BE TWO TO FOUR YEARS OUT.

THEY ARE UP AGAINST IT.

DON: TALK ABOUT INNOVATION.

THERE ARE A LOT OF COMPLEX FUNDING ASPECTS TO THIS.

IN THE QUESTION I HAVE IS WHAT ABOUT WAGE INCREASES FOR WORKERS TO INCENTIVIZE MORE WORKERS.

I UNDERSTAND THERE IS A CEILING IN TERMS OF AVAILABLE FUNDS.

THAT IS A PROBLEM WE HAVE SEEN IN HEALTH CARE THROUGHOUT THE SYSTEMS.

JIM: SOME OF THAT IS GOING UP, THE REALITY YOU CAN WRITE AT AMAZON FOR $20 AN HOUR.

THAT IS SOME OF THE ECONOMIC PRESSURE.

THEY HAVE HAD TO RAISE WAGES.

DON: NO QUESTION.

AND SOME OF IT IS FROM THE PANDEMIC.

WHAT IS A LIVABLE WAGE?

THAT IS PHYSICAL LABOR, AN EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT.

SOMETIMES YOU ARE AROUND THE FRAIL, SICK.

SOMETIMES YOU FORM ATTACHMENTS TO THIS PEOPLE.

IT IS AN INVESTMENT AND YOU HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF IF YOU ARE A FREE AGENT IS IT WORTH IT?

I KNOW THAT THERE IS A CAP.

I THINK THERE'’S A PROBLEM THAT PEOPLE TAKE FOR GRANTED -- $20 PER HOUR, GOOD LUCK.

I DON'’T KNOW WHAT YOU CAN RENT FOR $20 PER HOUR IN RHODE ISLAND RIGHT NOW.

THAT IS A BIG QUESTION.

JIM: THAT IS A MACRO ISSUE.

PRE-PANDEMIC YOU COULD GET HOUSING REASONABLY, THAT PUTS PRESSURE ON EVERYTHING.

CNA'’S, WHAT THEY WERE BEING PAID BEFORE THE PANDEMIC WAS CRIMINAL.

BILL: I THINK THERE'’S ALSO A PROBLEM WITH THE PAID STAFF OF THE NURSING HOME VERSUS THE PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR A STAFFING AGENCY.

WHAT I DON'’T QUITE UNDERSTAND IS HOW CAN STAFFING AGENCIES CHARGE SHOW MUCH -- CHARGE SO MUCH AND PAY THEIR WORKERS MORE THAN THE FOLKS WHO ARE PAID BY THE ACTUAL NURSING HOME.

HOW DOES THAT INTERACT?

I DON'’T KNOW HOW THAT WORKS.

JIM: THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

ANTONIA: ESSENTIALLY WHAT YOU HAVE IS WHAT PEOPLE DESCRIBED AS PRICE COUNTING ON BEHALF OF THE STAFFING AGENCY.

FOR NURSING HOME AND NEEDS TO FILL A SPOT.

THEY DON'’T HAVE ENOUGH STAFF SO THEY GO TO THE AGENCY WHICH MAY CHARGES THEM THREE TIMES BUT THEY WOULD BE PAYING ON SALARY.

IF YOU WERE A NURSING HOME EMPLOYEE, THAT IS PART OF WHERE THE DRAIN IS GOING BECAUSE YOU CAN WORK FOR STAFFING AGENCY.

YOU CAN MAKE MORE MONEY THAN YOU WOULD THINK A UNION MEMBER.

THERE IS AN OBVIOUS APPEAL TO PEOPLE TO DO THAT.

ONE THING THE UNION AND INDUSTRY ARE ON THE SAME SIDE ON IS SAYING WE NEED TO CRACK DOWN ON THESE AGENCIES.

THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME WAY TO REIN THIS IN.

JIM: THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE STATE REGULAR.

AND THAT YOU HAVE PEOPLE SAYING IT IS FREE MARKET AND DO WE WANT TO STEP IN AND REGULATE?

DON: I CAN SEE THAT BUT IF THE NURSING HOMES ARE ABLE TO PAY STAFFING AGENCIES A LOT OF MONEY WITH STAFFING AGENCIES CAN PAY THEIR EMPLOYEES AND LEFT MORE -- JIM: WHY CAN'’T THEY JUST BRING THEIR OWN PEOPLE?

DON: EXACTLY.

BUT OVERALL AND A SHORTAGE OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO WORK DIFFERENT JOBS IS EVERYWHERE IN THE WORKPLACE.

JIM: LET'’S GO EARLY TO OUTRAGES AND/OR KUDOS.

WHAT DO YOU HAVE?

BILL: THE PELLA NEWPORT BRIDGE RECONSTRUCTION IS COMPLETELY UNACCEPTABLE IN TERMS OF THE LAYOUT THEY HAVE CREATED.

IT IS A TEMPORARY SITUATION, I GET IT.

BUT IF YOU ARE GETTING ONTO THE BRIDGE -- I WAS GETTING ON LAST NIGHT.

YOU ARE MET WITH LINKING LIGHTS, CONES THAT DON'’T MATCH, BARRELS IN THE ROAD.

YOU'’RE NOT SURE IF YOU SHOULD STOP.

WE DON'’T KNOW IF YOU ARE GOING ONTO THE OFFRAMP.

THEY HAVE.

BLINDING WORK LET'’S.

YOU HAVE SEEN REPRESENTATIVE LAUREN CARSON COMPLAINED ABOUT THIS, YOU HAVE SEEN THE CITY COUNCIL COMPLAIN ABOUT THIS.

WE ADDRESS THIS ON THE RADIO.

I GOT A RESPONSE FROM A REPRESENTATIVE, TO HIS CREDIT.

THE SITUATION IS ONE OF THOSE THINGS MAKING A LOT OF PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE.

VISITED THE END OF THE WORLD?

NO.

HAS THERE BEEN A FATALITY?

NO.

BUT IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A TEMPORARY SITUATION, YOU NEED TO THINK OF IT IN THE WAY THAT THE MOST COMMITTEE DRIVER WILL BE ABLE TO NAVIGATE IT WITHOUT STRESS.

AS OF SOMEONE WHO GOES TO NEWPORT PRICE A WEEK AND IS USED TO THE NEW LAYOUT, IT IS VERY UNCOMFORTABL.

IT SEEMS LIKE IT IS A TICKING TIME BOMB BEFORE SOMEONE GOES UP THE WRONG SIDE.

JIM: WHAT IS THE TIMETABLE?

IT ALWAYS USED TO BE THE ROAD TO NOWHERE.

HAS A D.O.T.

SET WHEN THEY ARE GOING TO ULTIMATELY -- A YEAR, TWO YEARS?

BILL: THEY MAY HAVE SAID IT, I DON'’T KNOW THE TIMELINE.

JIM: YOU ARE THINKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

[LAUGHTER] BILL: ESPECIALLY AS WE GET TO THE SUMMER.

ANTONIA: GOOD LUCK.

BILL: IF IT IS NOT DONE BY SUMMER, YOU WILL HAVE A SERIOUS TRAFFIC ISSUES.

LOCALS ARE VOCALIZING IT AND THEY HAVE ADDRESSED IT AND LITTLE BIT BUT IT IS NOT UP TO THE STANDARDS WE SHOULD DEMAND.

JIM: OUTRAGE OR KUDO THIS WEEK?

DON: A LITTLE BIT OF BOTH.

THE GOVERNOR SAID RHODE ISLAND HAS MOMENTUM.

WHEN HE SAID THAT, I AM LIKE, WHAT KIND OF MOMENTUM IS HE TALKING ABOUT?

THE GOVERNOR HAS VERY GOOD INTENTIONS AND YOU KNOW THAT.

WHAT WAY ABOUT OUR HIS ACTIONS AND INTENTIONS DON'’T MATCH UP.

HE MAKES NOBODY HAPPY.

THE KUDO'’S THANK YOU FOR HAVING GOOD INTENTIONS BUT THE OUTREACH IS WE NEED TO HAVE MORE TEETH BEHIND YOUR INITIATIVES AND THINK ABOUT THE RHODE ISLAND TAXPAYER AND DO SOMETHING, EVEN IF IT ANGERS SOME PEOPLE.

JIM: THEY DID THAT WHOLE THING LAST YEAR AND IT WAS INTENTIONAL.

WE GET ALL OF THE PRESS RELEASE IS.

MOMENTUM WAS THE THING.

WE ARE GOING HERE AND WE ARE GOING HERE.

IT DID NOT SEEM TO RESONATE WITH THE PUBLIC AND I DON'’T KNOW WHY.

DON: IF YOU SAY YOU ARE GOING TO SPEND $250 MILLION AND SPEND ZERO DOLLARS, IT IS HARD TO SAY YOU WILL HAVE MOMENTUM.

IT IS HARD TO RESONATE WITH THE RHODE ISLAND VOTER.

I AM SHORTENED NUMBER OF HIS PROGRAMS ARE FALLING UNDER THE SAME CATEGORY.

HE HAS TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING.

JIM: ANTONIA, WELCOME.

I DON'’T KNOW WHY IT TOOK SO LONG BUT WE ARE HAPPY TO HAVE YOU HERE.

ATONIA: I WILL DO A KUDOS.

WHEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL ANNOUNCED CHARGES IN THE DUMPING OF CONTAMINATED SOIL, I MISSED IT THE FIRST TIME AROUND BUT THE WAY THAT GOD BROUGHT TO LIGHT IS THE BULLDOZER OPERATOR'’S THOUGHT SOMETHING WAS OFF AND THEIR UNION WENT AND DID SOIL TESTING AND FOUND THE SOIL WAS CONTAMINATED AND BROUGHT IT TO THE STATE AND FORCED THIS INVESTIGATION.

KUDOS TO THEM FOR DOING THAT AND PROTECTING THEIR WORKERS.

THERE WAS A REPORT THAT CAME OUT ESSENTIALLY WITH UNION PARTICIPATION BEING AT AN HISTORICAL LOW.

SOMETIMES THERE IS CRITICISM ABOUT HOW IS THE UNION GOING TO HELP ME, WHERE ARE THE DUES GOING TO GO?

BUT THAT IS A GOOD EXAMPLE.

JIM: IT MAKES YOU WONDER WHERE THE STATE INSPECTORS ARE.

ANTONIA: THEY DID INSPECTED BUT THE UNION GOT THEIR OWN TESTING DONE FIRST.

JIM: THAT IS ALL THE TIME WE HAVE.

ANTONIA, THANK YOU FOR YOUR DEBUT.

DON, WELCOME BACK.

WE PAUSE TO NOTE THE PASSING OF SOMEONE WHO SENT IN THIS CHAIR FIVE YEARS.

JAMES HAGAN WHO WAS THE SECOND MODERATOR IN THE 35 YEARS WE HAVE BEEN DOING THIS PROGRAM.

HE CAME FOR THREE WEEKS AS A FIELD IN AND WOUND UP STAYING FIVE YEARS.

BEFORE JOINING US, JIM HAD A LONG CAREER IN THE CORPORATE WORLD AND SERVED ON HIS LOCAL TOWN COUNCIL IN NORTH SMITHFIELD AND LATER IN THE STATE SENATE.

HE LIVED OR JOINED THE PROVIDENCE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AS ITS PRESIDENT.

THAT GAVE HIM A UNIQUE PERSPECTIVE FROM THE MODERATOR'’S SEAT WHEN TOP ELECTED OFFICIALS AND LAWMAKERS 20 PANEL.

DURING A 30TH ANNUAL VERSE THREE -- 30TH ANNIVERSARY PROGRAM WE FILMED USE AGO, HE TALKED ABOUT HOW HE ENJOYED BRINGING PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES AND IDEOLOGIES TOGETHER.

WE APPRECIATE ALL YOU DID FOR US AND FOR THE STATE OF RHODE ISLAND.

>> THANKS FOR WATCHING.

♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> HI, I'’M JOHN HAZEN WHITE, JR. FOR 30 YEARS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS TO ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I AM A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.