A Lively Experiment 2/24/2023

[CLOSED CAPTIONING HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY CARDI'S FURNITURE AND MATTRESSES] >> THIS WEEK, ANOTHER SHOCKER IN THE RHODE ISLAND POLITICAL EVIDENCE.

AND THE RACE IS ON TO SEE WHO WILL REPLACE HIM.

>> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> I'’M JOHN HE'’S IN WHITE JUNIOR.

FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND PBS.

>> GET YOUR SCORECARD OUT, AS OUR PANEL OF REPORTERS JOIN US FOR ANALYSIS OF THIS EVOLVING STORY.

THEY INCLUDE THE BOSTON GLOBE COLUMNIST DAN MACGOWAN, S TEPH P., AND A POLITICAL REPORTER FOR THE PUBLIC RADIO.

WELCOME TO LIVELY.

SO MUCH FOR A QUIET, OFF ELECTION YEAR.

THEY SET IN MOTION WHAT PROMISES TO BE A REPEAT OF WHAT WE SAW LAST SUMMER WHEN JIM L. ANNOUNCED HE WAS CALLING IT QUITS.

BUT AN INSANELY LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SAY THEY ARE CONSIDERING A RUN FOR HIS HOUSE SEAT.

MORE ON THE ELECTION TO REPLACE HIM A LITTLE LATER.

LET ME BEGIN WITH YOU, DAN.

DAN SAID MONDAY NIGHT, I MAY OR MAY NOT BE CHASING THAT SOMETHING THAT COULD BE THE LATEST STORY OF THE YEAR.

AND 12 HOURS LATER IT TURNED OUT TO BE.

WHEN DID HE GO INTO THE FOUNDATION THAT HE FIRST POP UP IN YOUR RADAR SCREEN?

>> MOSTLY LAST WEEK, I HAVE BEEN CHASING THE STORY ABOUT WHO'’S GOING TO BE THE NEXT FOUNDATION DIRECTOR.

A LOT OF PEOPLE WANTED THE JOB, VERY HIGH-PROFILE.

IT'’S INTERESTING BECAUSE THEY PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE IN LOTS OF DIFFERENT KIND OF AREAS AND RHODE ISLAND.

HEARD LAST WEEK THAT THIS WAS A POSSIBILITY.

BY THE TIME I WAS TEXTING YOU, I WAS FAIRLY CONFIDENT THAT IT COULD HAPPEN.

FROM WHAT HE TOLD ME IN A REVIEW -- IN AN INTERVIEW THIS WEEK, HE SAID, THEY APPROACHED ME IN DECEMBER, HE IS GOING TO MAKE MORE MONEY, A LOT MORE MONEY, THREE TIMES AS MUCH AS LEAST -- AT LEAST.

YOU CAN UNDERESTIMATE THE FACT THAT HE'’S IN THE MINORITY PARTY NOW AND HE IS NOT ON TRACK TO BE IN A HIGH-LEVEL LEADERSHIP POSITION EVEN IF THEY DO TAKE BACK -- THE DEMOCRATS.

>> WHAT IS HE DOING?

>> IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE, HE LIKES TO BE THE CENTER OF ATTENTION, THIS GIVES HIM A CHANCE TO DO THAT.

>> HE WAS CLEARLY OPEN TO A NEW CHAPTER IN HIS LIFE, YOU SEE SOME PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON AND ELECTED OFFICE WHO JUST WANT TO STAY THERE UNTIL THEY ARE IN THEIR 80'’S.

HE HAD A DIFFERENT OUTLOOK ON IT.

IT'’S A GOOD OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM AT A GOOD TIME.

AS DAN SAID, THERE ARE VARIOUS FACTORS, DEMOCRATS BEING IN THE MINORITY AND THE HOUSE, HE IS BEEN BLUNTED AND SOME OF HIS EFFORTS TO MOVE UP IN THE HIERARCHY.

IT'’S PROBABLY BEEN FRUSTRATED FOR HIM THAT KATHERINE CLARK OF MASSACHUSETTS, NOW THE NUMBER THREE DEMOCRAT, JOINED CONGRESS AFTER HIM AND HAS BEEN ABLE TO MOVE UP FASTER.

THIS IS A HIGH-PROFILE ROLE WITH A LOT MORE MONEY.

IT ENABLES HIM TO ARGUE ON KEY ISSUES AND RHODE ISLAND.

YOU CAN SEE WHY THIS WAS AN APPEALING OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM.

>> AND IT WAS A SPECTACULAR FAIL THAT HE TOOK ON JIM C., THAT DIDN'’T SEEM TO BE SUCH A SMART MOVE, HE WAS TRYING TO TAKE OUT CLYBURN WHO HAD BEEN THERE FOREVER.

THAT FAILED.

I WONDER IF THAT NOTCHED HIM ALSO.

-- NUDGED HIM ALSO.

>> HE BEEN IN THE HOUSE FOR 12 YEARSM WHAT'’S HE GOING TO ACCOMPLISH IF HE STAYS THEIR LONGER -- THERE LONGER?

HE CLEARLY WANTED TO GO IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.

>> I WAS SHOCKED INITIALLY WHEN I SAW THE SALARY, THAT HE'’S GOING TO BE MAKING AT THE RHODE ISLAND FOUNDATION.

SOME SAY LEAVING IS LIKE BEING THE MAYOR WITHOUT THE RESPONSE ABILITY.

YOU HAVE ALL THE POWERFUL PEOPLE IN THE STATE AND THE ABILITY TO GIVE OUT MONEY TO CAUSES THAT ARE IMPORTANT AND YOU HAVE -- YOU ARE IN THE ROOM FORBIG POSITIONS, THE FOUNDATION HAS HAD A ROLE IN THE TAKEOVER OF THE SCHOOL AND ALL THESE EVENTS AND HE WILL REMAIN IN THE PUBLIC EYE FOR AS LONG AS HE IS IN THAT ROLE AND I DON'’T KNOW IF HE'’S GOING TO RUN FOR OFFICE EVER AGAIN BUT IF THERE'’S AN OPPORTUNITY TO RUN FOR SENATE OR RUN FOR OFFICE IN THE FUTURE, HE CERTAINLY WON'’T BE SOMEONE THAT EVERYONE FORGOTTEN ABOUT.

>> NOW, WE TALKED ABOUT THIS ON THE GLOBE PODCAST.

TWO YEARS AGO IF HE HAD SAID WHO DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO GO FOR A SET OF THE FORM, YOU WOULD THINK JACK REED.

WE WERE NOT EVEN SURE WE WERE GOING TO HAVE TWO CONGRESSIONAL SEATS, NOW SETH MAGAZINER IS GOING TO BE THE SENIOR MEMBER.

>> IT IS A BLOW TO RHODE ISLAND.

A LOT OF PEOPLE AT HOME WONDER SOMETIMES, WHAT WAS JIM DOING, BUT BEING THERE PARTICULAR WITH DEMOCRATS -- PARTICULARLY WITH DEMOCRATS, LONGEVITY REALLY MATTERS ALONG THE DEMOCRATS.

SO THIS IS A BIT OF A CHALLENGE.

BUT IT'’S A BIG CHANCE FOR SETH MAGAZINER TO STEP UP AND BE LOUD AND ACTUALLY HE'’S NOT GOING TO HAVE DAVID CICILLINE TO SAY, TOLD THIS ONE DOWN, THIS IS A CHANCE FOR SETH MAGAZINER TO REALLY EMERGE AS A STAR IN THE DEMOCRATIC CONGRESS.

I THINK IT'’S A GREAT OPPORTUNITY FOR HIM.

>> YOU HAVE A GREAT TASK OF DOING THE SIDEBAR.

>> WHO WAS RUNNING?

>> YOU CAN'’T SAY THIS, BUT THERE'’S TWO DOZEN PEOPLE, MAYBE.

THE ONLY PERSON NOT ON HERE IS MY POST MAN.

[LAUGHTER] WAIT A MINUTE.

HE IS A LAST-MINUTE ADDITION.

NOW THE FUN AND THE SPECULATION BEGINS.

>> EXACTLY.

AT THIS POINT IT FEELS LIKE EVERYONE IS EXPLORING A RUN BECAUSE THEY DON'’T HAVE TO GIV UP THEIR CURRENT ELECTED SEAT TO RUN FOR THIS OFFICE WHICH MAKES IT VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE CD2 OPEN SEAT THAT WE HAD LAST YEAR.

IF YOU WERE IN ELECTED OFFICE RUNNING FOR THAT SEAT, YOU WERE TAKING A GAMBLE AND YOU HAD TO GIVE UP YOUR CURRENCY.

RIGHT NOW WE HAVE MANY STATE SENATORS AND STATE REPS AND COUNSEL PEOPLE SAYING I'’M EXPLORING A RUN FOR CONGRESS.

I THINK THE QUESTION IS, WHERE THE BIG NAMES ARE GOING TO GET IN, LET FOLKS -- LIKE FOLKS.

THE WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL WHO DOES NOT HAVE NAME RECOGNITION BUT COULD POTENTIALLY HAVE THE CONNECTIONS TO RAISE A LOT OF MONEY.

IT IS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY.

25 PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO ACTUALLY RUN FOR CONGRESS.

BUT ANYONE CAN SAY THEY ARE GOING TO RUN AT THIS MOMENT BECAUSE IT IS AN ODD NUMBER YEAR, THEY ARE NOT GIVING ANYTHING UP BY EXPLORING A RUN RIGHT NOW.

>> THE DECLARATION WON'’T HAPPEN UNTIL JULY.

>> I AGREE WITH WHAT STEPHANIE -- STEPH SAID.

THE PRIMARY CAME UP A LITTLE BIT SHORT.

IF SHE HAD BEEN MORE AGGRESSIVE, THE OUTCOME MIGHT HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A WAY TO KEEP HER NAME IN THE POLITICAL REALM.

BEING ON THE JOHNSTON SCHOOL BUILDING COMMITTEE MIGHT BE NICE.

[LAUGHTER] BUT IT'’S NO COMPARISONS ARE BEING IN CD1.

SHE COULD BE VERY STRONG.

ANOTHER BIG QUESTION IS WHETHER HOUSE SPEAKER DECIDES TO GET IN, HE IS IN WARWICK NOT CURRENTLY IN CD1.

BUT HE HAS A HUGE STRONG POLITICAL NETWORK.

A QUESTION FOR HIM IS WHETHER IT IS BETTER TO BE ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICAL FIGURES IN RHODE ISLAND OR TO BE ONE OF HUNDREDS OF MEMBERS OF CONGRES IN D.C.

THIS DECISION IS ONE WE WILL BE WATCHING VERY CLOSELY.

>> I ALSO THINK ABOUT HELENA FOLKS, THERE'’S A LITTLE BIT OF A -- SHE HAS DEEP TIES IN WASHINGTON.

>> SHE COULD STILL COME BACK, IF SHE WERE TO RUN AND WIN AN ELECTION IN CD1.

SHE COULD STILL RUN FOR GOVERNOR DOWN THE ROAD.

>> THAT'’S WHY FOR ME IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE FOR FOLKS BECAUSE HERE'’S THE CHALLENGE, SHE HAS SIGNALED ALREADY THAT SHE REALLY LIKES THIS IDEA OF WANTING TO BE THE GOVERNOR.

BUT YOU ARE LOOKING A COUPLE OF YEARS DOWN THE LINE -- >> -- SO DOES SETH MAGAZINER.

>> IF THINGS STAY THE SAME WITHOUT MAJOR UNION SUPPORT, IT DOES NOT MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY HELENA FOLKS HAS.

IN THIS CASE IT IS A LANDING SPOT AND POTENTIALLY YOU SAY DOWN THE LINE, 2030, THERE ARE LOTS OF OPTIONS TO RUN FOR GOVERNOR, POTENTIALLY FOR U.S. SENATE, THINGS LIKE THAT.

BEING IN THE CONGRESS PROBABLY IS THE SMART LANDING SPOT FOR HER.

>> AND FOR SETH MAGAZINER THAT WAS BECAUSE DEMOCRATS THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO LOSE THAT SEAT, THE CD2 SEAT.

IT IS A MORE CONSERVATIVE DISTRICT.

THAT SEATS COULD HAVE GONE TO REPUBLICANS AND THEY NEEDED A CANDIDATE THAT THEY THOUGHT COULD DEFINITELY WIN AND HE WAS CONVINCED TO MOVE FOM GOVERNOR TO CONGRESS.

DEMOCRATS ARE NOT AFRAID OF LOSING THE CD1 SEAT.

THEY HAVE MORE FLEXIBILITY -- THEY WANT A GOOD CANDIDATE OF COURSE, BUT THERE'’S MORE -- YOU ARE NOT FEELING THE PRESSURE TO, I GOT A RUN FOR THE SEAT BECAUSE OTHERWISE IT'’S NOT GOING TO STAY BLUE.

>> EVERYBODY SAYS IT'’S NOT A BIG DEAL THAT YOU CAN RUN FROM ANOTHER DISTRICT.

MY FEELING IS IT'’S A BAD LOOK.

IF I LIVE IN CD1, BUYING A HOUSE IN PROVIDENCE OR WHATEVER, BUT WANTING TO MOVE TO NORTH KINGSTOWN, DO YOU THINK THAT MATTERS?

IF SOMEONE IS IN CD2, RUNNING IN CD1, DOES THAT BECOME A CAMPAIGN ISSUE?

>> TALKING TO PEOPLE ON OUR LIST -- HE IS A CD2 GUY.

IT CAN BECOME A FACTOR.

ESPECIALLY TO STEPH'’S POINT, WHEN YOU DON'’T HAVE THE DEEP FEAR OF POTENTIALLY LOSING THE SEAT.

YOU ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR ISSUES THAT SEPARATE YOU AS A CANDIDATE.

YOU ARE ON THE MAIN STAGE WITH EIGHT OTHER PEOPLE.

ONE WAY TO GO AFTER SOMEONE -- THAT IS ON A TALK ON JOE M., SO I DO THINK IT WILL PLAY, IF IT'’S ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE.

NOW HELENA FOLKS, SOMEONE WHO GREW UP IN THE FIRST DISTRICT, SHE CAN AT LEAST MAKE THAT CASE.

>> AND ALSO HAS MADE RECOGNITION.

>> I THINK IT IS AN ISSUE.

IT KIND OF GOES TO THE QUESTION OF AUTHENTICITY.

WE ARE SUCH A SMALL STATE.

YOU COULD THROW A STONE FROM ONE DISTRICT INTO THE OTHER.

BUT IT COULD BE A TALKING POINT, IF IT CAN BE USED BY ONE CANDIDATE AGAINST ANOTHER.

>> I WAS SURPRISED, SITTING ON A $1 MILLION, THAT LORZA RULED THAT OUT.

>> HE HAD INTEREST IN CONGRESS AT ONE POINT.

>> WHAT'’S TAKING UP HIS TIME NOW?

>> HE'’S WORKING AT THE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL AND HE LIKES WORKING IN THAT POSITION, HE IS NOT INTERESTED IN BEING A LAWMAKER.

>> ONCE YOU GET THAT TASTE -- DAVID CICILLINE WAS PERFECTLY FINE WITH THAT, BUT I THINK HE REALLY LIKE BEING IN CHARGE AND HE'’S NOT GOING TO BE IN CHARGE, HE DOESN'’T NEED THE POLITICS, HE'’S NOT OBSESSED WITH IT THE WAY THAT CICILLINE WAS.

>> TO ROUND OUT THE CONVERSATION, YOU ALLUDED TO IT, THE REPUBLICANS, IT ALMOST REMINDED ME OF WHO IS GOING TO BE THE SACRIFICIAL LAMB?

IT-- THEY ARE IN DISARRAY, BUT THEY THOUGHT THIS WAS GOING TO BE THE LOCK AND LOAD YOUR, YOU WONDER WHETHER THEY HAVE TO FIND A MARK S. BECAUSE THEY HAE TO HAVE SOMEBODY.

ANYBODY ON YOUR RADAR SCREEN?

>>'’ I'’M CURIOUS ABOU JESSICA DELACRUZ.

I REPORTED SHE WAS GOING TO RUN IN CD2.

SHE DENIED IT A DAY LATER AND THEN ANNOUNCED ABOUT IT A DAY AFTER THAT THAT SHE WAS RUNNING.

[LAUGHTER] SHE'’S ONE OF THE FEW BRIGHT SPOTS FOR THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN RHODE ISLAND RIGHT NOW.

IT'’S FOR HER TO DECIDE WHETHER RUNNING OR STAYING IN HER CURRENT ROLE AS BETTER USE OF HER TIME AND ENERGY.

AS WE HAVE SAID, CD1 IS A LESS CONSERVATIVE PLACE THEN CD2.

IT COULD BE A TOUGH LIFT FOR REPUBLICANS.

SHE IS SOMEONE TO KEEP AN EYE ON.

>> THE FIRST DISTRICT IS A LITTLE BIT LIKE FAIRFIELD COUNTY IN CONNECTICUT.

WHERE ROCKEFELLER REPUBLICAN TYPES ARE POTENTIALLY, YOU ARE REPUBLICAN FOR TAX PURPOSES AND THAT'’S IT.

I COULD SEE A SCENARIO WHERE THAT ARGUMENT GETS MADE.

THERE IS SOMEBODY WE ARE JUST NOT THINKING OF THAT HAS A COUPLE OF ONE MILLION BUCKS AND TIME TO HANDLE THIS.

BUT IT'’S VERY DIFFICULT TO RUN ON SORT OF THE TRUMP MAGA KIND OF POLICY AND VIEWS.

BECAUSE IT'’S NOT GOING TO HOLD UP IN THE FIRST DISTRICT.

>> SO, CICILLINE'’S NOT LEAVING, THEY CAN'’T CALL IT, THERE'’S ALL SORTS OF SCRAMBLING WITH PHONE CALLS AND ALL THAT, WHEN DO YOU THINK WE HAVE AN IDEA OF WHO THE SERIOUS CANDIDATES ARE?

APRIL, EARLY MAY?

>> THE DECLARATION DEADLINE IS PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE UNTIL JULY OR AUGUST.

>> THAT LONG?

>> GREG A., TWO OPTIONS FOR GOVERNOR MCKEE, THE PRIMARY IN AUGUST, THE OTHER IN SEPTEMBER, WAS THE SPECIAL ELECTION EITHER IN OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME FOR DECLARATION, FOR VERIFYING SIGNATURES.

ALL THAT.

THIS IS ONE OF THE BENEFITS FOR POTENTIAL CANDIDATES.

I HAVE A COUPLE OF MONTHS TO GAUGE THEIR SUPPORT -- THEY HAVE A COUPLE OF MONTHS TO REACH THEIR SUPPORT AND RAISE THEIR PROFILE.

>> DON'’T YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE A LITTLE BIT -- REMEMBER LAST YEAR, THE FIRST PERSON TO ANNOUNCE WAS PACHICO?

HE WENT FORWARD AND TRIED TO RAISE THE MONEY.

YOU ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THE TRIAL BALLOONS LIKE PACH ICHOS OF THE WORLD.

YOU WILL SEE MANY FILE TO OPEN A CAMPAIGN ACCOUNT.

THEY WILL TRY TO RAISE $200,000 AND SHOW THEY'’VE GOT SOME LEVEL OF SUPPORT.

TALK TO ANYBODY WHO DOES FUNDRAISING AND THEY SAY, SHOW ME YOU CAN DO IT, THAT IS WHAT THEY TELL CANDIDATES.

A LOT OF THESE CANDIDATES ARE ALSO GOING TO FIND OUT THAT I'’M A CITY COUNCILMAN AND I CAN ONLY RAISE $30,000.

>> YOU ARE NOT GOING TO SEE A LOT OF THE PEOPLE ON THAT LIST COME JULY.

>> 100%.

>> THE FINAL POINT IS, IN THIS RACE UNLIKE CD2, WHERE ALL THAT MONEY CAME IN FROM THE OUTSIDE BECAUSE THERE WERE NATIONAL IMPLICATIONS, WHAT YOU THINK, COULD A MILLION DOLLARS TO THIS RACE?

>> YEAH.

IT JUST DEPENDS ON HOW COMPETITIVE IT IS.

>> AND WITH A PRIMARY, IF YOU HAD THAT THE 8TH OF AUGUST PRIMARY, YOU COULD WIN WITH 25% OF THE VOTE, MULTIPLE FIELDS?

>> THAT'’S THE THING, THE TURNOUT.

IT IS A SPECIAL ELECTION.

IT IS NOT A NORMAL ELECTION.

SO IT COULD BE A VERY LOW TURNOUT ELECTION.

AND IF THERE'’S A FIVE TO SIX PERCENT PRIMARY, YOU COULD WIN WITH A SMALL SHARE OF VOTERS.

>> WHICH IS WHY WE SHOULD SAY, DON'’T COUNT OUT SOME OF THESE MAYORS, LIKE BOB DASILVA IN EAST PROVIDENCE.

IF YOU HAVE A LITTLE BIT OF A CONSTITUENCY -- >> AND IF THEY GET THE OTHER MAYORS TO COALESCE AROUND HIM, GET THEIR PEOPLE OUT TO THE POLLS.

>> IT WILL BE A MAJOR ROLE IN THIS PLACE IF HE WANTS TO COALESCE THE MAYORS.

>> FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 10 YEARS, MAJOR CHANGES TO THE ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS.

THE LAW IS BEING CHANGED.

WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?

THIS IS RIGHT IN THE WHEELHOUSE OF EVERYBODY SITTING IN THIS SET.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY IT'’S ABOUT TRANSPARENCY AND HOW YOU KNOW THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT WORKS.

YOU HAVE A GREAT ARTICLE OUTLINING THIS, STEPH.

IT LAYS OUT A PRETTY AGGRESSIVE AGENDA.

I DON'’T KNOW HOW MUCH OF IT IS GOING TO GET THROUGH.

OF THE CHANGES, WHAT WERE SOME OF THE TOP THINGS THAT STRUCK YOU?

>> ELECTED OFFICIALS ALL THIS TIME, THERE EMAILS ANCHOR MUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN EXEMPT FROM THE PUBLIC RECORDS -- AND COMMUNICATIONS HAVE BEEN EXEMPT FROM THE PUBLIC RECORDS LAW.

MAKING BIG DECISIONS IF THEY ARE A MAYOR OR GOVERNOR.

THIS PROPOSAL WOULD MAKE ELECTED OFFICIALS, CORRESPONDENTS'’ EMAILS PUBLIC AND EXEMPT THEIR CONVERSATIONS WITH THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

CONSTITUENTS CAN STILL FEEL COMFORTABLE EMAILING THEIR STATE REP.

BUT THAT WOULD BE A HUGE CHANGE.

IT AS ELECTED OFFICIALS VOTING ON THIS.

>> YOU KNOW HOW I FOUND THAT OUT?

WHAT SARAH PALIN, WON HER EMAILS CAME OUT, EVERY REPORTER SAID, I AM SORRY, THOSE WERE EXEMPTED -- ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS.

>> IT IS FUNNY WE ARE TALKING ABOUT DAVID CICILLINE.

WHEN HE LEFT CITY HALL, THERE WAS AN EFFORT TO GET HIS EMAILS ABOUT THE CITY'’S FINANCIAL CONDITION AND HOW HE WAS TALKING ABOUT IT -- THAT COULD HAVE OFFERED AN IMPORTANT WINDOW ON WHAT WAS HAPPENING.

BUT UNDER THE STATE'’S PUBLIC RECORDS LAW AT THE TIME, THOSE COULD NOT BE LAWFULLY DEMANDED BY REPORTERS.

>> WHAT ENDED UP HAPPENING IN THAT SCENARIO WAS THAT SEEM AT THAT TIME DID IN FACT END UP RELEASING PARTIAL EMAILS.

ALL YOU REALLY GOT WAS A SENSE OF KIND OF THE GOSSIP THAT THEY SPREAD ABOUT EACH OTHER.

[LAUGHTER] WHICH IS WHAT WE WANT.

THAT'’S FASCINATING.

YOU DIDN'’T ACTUALLY GET A LOT.

YOU NEVER GET THE SMOKING GUN.

WE HAVE TO COVER THIS UP.

USUALLY DON'’T WRITE THAT.

>> THE RAISE ACT IT -- THEY REDACT IT.

[LAUGHTER] >> 911 CALLS?

>> THEY HAVE BEEN EXEMPTED FROM BECOMING PUBLIC IN RHODE ISLAND, THOSE COULD POTENTIALLY BECOME PUBLIC UNDER THIS BILL.

ALSO THE BODY CAMERA VIDEO.

WHICH IS PUBLIC.

BUT IT'’S BEEN SO LONG SINCE THE LAW WAS UPDATED, THAT THE PSYCHOLOGY WAS NOT EVEN CONSIDERED.

THEY ALSO TRYING TO UPDATE IT IN LIGHT OF THIS NEW TECHNOLOGY.

BODY WORN CAMERAS, THE VIDEO IS PUBLIC RECORD, IT IS SUBJECT TO REDUCTIONS -- REDACTIONS, BUT ONE POLICE ARE ACCUSED OF USING FORCE AND APPROPRIATELY, THAT VIDEO HAS TO BE RELEASED WITHIN 30 DAYS ACCORDING TO THE PROPOSAL.

WE WILL SEE WHAT THE FINAL BILL SAYS.

BUT THAT IS HUGE.

WE HAVE SEEN POLICE ACCUSED OF USING FORCE AND APPROPRIATELY AND THEN IT IS MONTHS AND MONTHS AND THE VIDEO IS NOT RELEASED.

WHEN IT FINALLY COMES OUT, IT CAN SHOW SOMETHING REALLY EGREGIOUS.

>> HERE'’S THE STORY ON HOW THE 911 GOT PAST.

THERE WAS A STATE SENATOR YEARS AGO.

HE WOULD GO UNNAMED.

HE WOULD WORK AS A LAWYER AND HAD A CLIENT WHO GOT EMBARRASSED.

BECAUSE THERE WAS A CALL THAT GOT BROADCAST ON ALL THE TV STATIONS.

HE IMMEDIATELY DRAFTED LEGISLATION THAT SAID, BAN ON 911 CALLS UNLESS YOU GET A COURT ORDER OR THE PERSON MAKING THE CALL AGREES TO RELEASE IT.

IN YOUR WORST MOMENT, YOU ARE GOING TO GO, YOU KNOW WHAT?

SHE SHOULD BE ABLE TO BROADCAST THAT.

THAT'’S BEEN THE LAW.

WHEN YOU GO TO ANY OTHER STATE, MOST STATES, MASSACHUSETTS, YOU GOT THEM IMMEDIATELY, ALL THESE PLACES WHERE THE 911 CALL, ON THE NEWS THAT NIGHT OR THE NEXT NIGHT, THEN IN RHODE ISLAND, WE HAVE BEEN UNDER A SHROUD OF DARKNESS FOR 15 YEARS.

>> UNFORTUNATELY SADLY, SOMETIMES A PERSON WHO MADE THE 911 CALL IS NO LONGER ALIVE BECAUSE OF WHATEVER TRAGIC THING THEY WERE CALLING ABOUT, SO YOU CAN'’T GET THEIR PERMISSION TO RELEASE IT.

THAT WEIRD CLAUSE WHERE YOU HAVE TO GET THE PERMISSION OF THE PERSON WHO MADE THE CALL IN ORDER FOR IT TO BE A PUBLIC RECORD HAS NEVER MADE A LOT OF SENSE.

I'’M SURE THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO SAY THIS IS AN INVASION OF PRIVACY.

THESE ARE PEOPLE'’S WORST MOMENTS THAT THEY ARE MAKING THIS PHONE CALL.

>> WHAT THEY ARE A PUBLIC FIGURE USING PUBLIC RESOURCES.

>> THERE COULD BE PUBLIC INTEREST ON THIS INFORMATION.

WE DID SOME REPORTING WHERE A PERSON WHO HAD MADE A 911 CALL WITH THEIR FAMILY WILLING TO MAKE THAT AVAILABLE BECAUSE IT SHED LIGHT ON A LACK OF SUFFICIENT TRAINING.

BY SOME OF THE 911 OPERATORS.

SO THAT SHOWS THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS INFORMATION.

>> NOT JUST A CALL BUT HOW IT IS HANDLED BY THE 911 OPERATOR WHO IS A PUBLIC EMPLOYEE >> THE PROBLEM WITH THE PROPOSAL IS THEY COULD BE RELEASED IF THERE IS GOOD CAUSE.

WHO IS DECIDING WHAT THE GOOD CAUSE IS?

WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST FRUSTRATION WITH THE OPEN RECORDS LAW RIGHT NOW?

>> IT IS 100% THE EMAILS.

THAT AND THE OTHER ONE -- I GUESS I HAVE MULTIPLE.

[LAUGHTER] THE OTHER ONE I WOULD SAY IS JUST THE FLEXIBILITY THAT ATTORNEYS HAVE, ATTORNEYS WORKING FOR GOVERNMENT BODIES, TO SAY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE DON'’T REALLY LIKE THAT, THAT IS AN UNCOMFORTABLE QUESTION YOU ARE ASKING, WE ARE GOING TO PUT YOU OFF FOR 30 DAYS.

>> THEN THEY DO IT -- [OVERLAPPING CHATTER] >> TO KOMODO SIX OR SEVEN WEEKS.

>> IT CAN BE THE EASIEST THING IN THE ENTIRE WORLD.

THEY PUSH IT OFF, PUSH IT OFF, THE EVILS THAT WERE SENT, THE APPLICANT HAS -- IT IS SO MUCH WORK TO REDACT FIVE EMAILS.

IT IS RIDICULOUS.

>> THEY ALSO USE IT AS A WEAPON.

WE SAW THAT WITH PATRICIA MORGAN.

THERE WERE GOING TO CHARGE HER $3000.

YOU AND I HAVE BEEN KIND OF FUN REPORTERS OUT THERE -- LINE REPORTERS OUT THERE, WHEN I WORKED FOR THE JOURNAL, YOU GO IN AND A LOT OF THE CLERKS ARE NOT TRAINED.

YOU WILL GO IN AND SAY, WHY DO YOU WANT THAT INFORMATION?

YOU DON'’T EVEN HAVE TO PUT YOUR NAME DOWN HERE BUT A LOT OF THEM DON'’T KNOW THAT.

YOU FIND THAT, TOO?

>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT>>.

THEY TRY TO DO A YEARLY THING TO INFORM LOCAL OFFICIALS ABOUT THIS.

THERE'’S A LITTLE BIT OF INCREASED KNOWLEDGE ABOUT IT.

BUT THERE'’S A LOT OF DISCRETION SEEMINGLY WITH SOME OF THIS OPEN RECORD STUFF.

IF GOVERNMENT WANTS TO TRY AND COVER STUFF FROM BEING RELEASED TO REPORTERS, THEY OFTEN HAVE SIGNIFICANT DISCRETION.

>> THEN THEY PUT THE ONUS ON US, ARE WE GOING TO FIGHT IT LEGALLY?

AS OUR COMPANY GOING TO SPEND THE MONEY?

>> THEY ARE CALLING YOUR BLU FF ESSENTIALLY, CALL A LAWYER AND GO AHEAD.

>> AND IF YOU WANT TO FILE AN APPEAL, YOU CAN DO THAT.

BUT IT COULD TAKE A YEAR FOR THE APPEAL TO BE ADJUDICATED, THE STORY IS OVER, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED, THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO GET -- THE THING HAS HAPPENED THAT YOU WERE TRYING TO GET RECORDS ABOUT.

>> LET'’S GO TO OUTRAGE AND KUDOS.

>> MY OUTRAGE IS RECENT REVELATIONS ABOUT FOX NEWS THAT CAME OUT IN A LAWSUIT THAT SOME OF THE FOX NEWS PERSONNEL, LIKE TUCKER KARLSSON, LAURA INGRAHAM, SEAN HANNITY, WHO WERE SUPPORTING THE TRUMP LINE ON TV ABOUT A STOLEN ELECTION, TURNS OUT BEHIND THE SCENES THEY WERE SAYING HOW RIDICULOUS SOME OF THESE ASSERTIONS WERE IN A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT KIND OF WAY.

THAT WAS VERY REVEALING.

IT'’S PRETTY OUTRAGEOUS.

>> I THOUGHT STEPH WOULD GO SO NOW I AM NERVOUS -- >> YOU ARE A GAMER.

[LAUGHTER] >> MY BIGGEST OUTRAGE IS BASED ON STEPH'’S REPORT AND WE HAVE BEEN SEEING ABOUT THE PROVIDENT SCHOOL SYSTEM.

SOME OF THE FRUSTRATION ABOUT THE CLOSING OF THE SCHOOLS.

IT'’S ON THE CLOSING OF THE SCHOOLS THAT I FIND TO BE A PROBLEM, IT IS A TRANSPARENCY THAT WE ARE NOT SEEING FROM THE RHODE ISLAND DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.

THE STATE TAKES OVER THE SCHOOLS, THE BIG ARGUMENT WAS, WE HAVE TO GET ALL THE GOVERNMENT BODIES OUT OF THIS, THE CITY COUNCIL IS SO RIDICULOUS.

THE TRUTH IS, THE CITY COUNCIL, THE SCHOOL BOARD ACTUALLY HELD POWER TO ACCOUNTS.

NOW WE ARE NOT SEEING IT AT ALL.

IT'’S COMPLETELY OUTRAGEOUS.

>> IS THERE A QUESTION ABOUT CONTROL?

I KNOW THAT'’S MORE OF A CURRICULUM THING.

BUT IT'’S A PHYSICAL BUILDING.

>> THE BUILDINGS ARE OWNED AND CONTROLLED BY THE CITY BUT THE SCHOOL DEPARTMENT WHICH IS STATE-CONTROLLED CAN CHOOSE TO LEAVE THE BUILDING.

THEY COULD JUST CHOOSE, WE ARE TAKING OUR KIDS OUT OF THE BUILDING AND EDUCATE THEM ELSEWHERE.

>> DO YOU HAVE AN OUTRAGE OR A KUDOS?

>> I WILL STICK WITH THE THEME AND SAY THAT I'’M OUTRAGED ABOUT EXCESSIVE REDAVCTIONS -- EXCESSIVE REDACTIONS.

IT'’S VERY HARD TO APPEAL, BECAUSE YOU DON'’T KNOW WHAT WORDS ARE UNDER THE BLACK MARKER.

>> LIKE THIS?

[LAUGHTER] >> ASSAULT AND BATTERY WITH A MAGIC MARKER HERE.

[OVERLAPPING CHATTER] >> THEY DID NOT CHARGE ME ANY MONEY AND THEY TYPICALLY DON'’T.

BUT ASSAULT AND BATTERY WITH A MAGIC MARKER CAN GET REALLY EGREGIOUS.

IF YOU DON'’T KNOW -- SOMETIMES WE DO KNOW WHAT IS UNDER THE REDACTIONS, BUT IT'’S VERY HARD TO APPEAL AND IT CAN GET REALLY, WHAT'’S THE WORD?

IT'’S THE DISCRETION TO REDACT ANYTHING YOU WANT AND CALL IT A PRODUCT OR SOMETHING.

>> WE SHOULD BE MORE LIKE FLORIDA.

>> OH MY GOSH.

[LAUGHTER] >> THE SUNSHINE.

>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS KERFUFFLE AT RIPTA?

>> RIPTA HAS HAD ITS PROBLEMS.

THEY ARE CALLING OUT THE LONGTIME HEAD OF RIPTA.

SOME OF THE BOARD MEMBERS, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD IS DEFENDING HIM.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF ALL THIS?

>> THIS SEEMS LIKE ONE OF THOSE PERENNIAL RHODE ISLAND ISSUES WHERE WE ARE SUCH A SMALL STATE, IT SHOULD BE EASIER TO HAVE A ROBUST PUBLIC TRANSIT SYSTEM.

BUT INSTEAD, IT DOES NOT FUNCTION THAT WILL.

THERE ARE FUNDING ISSUES.

WE KNOW REVENUE IS CHALLENGED BY CHANGING MODES OF TRANSIT.

SOME LAWMAKERS WANT TO GET A SURTAX TO TRY TO FUNNEL MORE MONEY TO RIPTA.

IT WOULD SEEM THAT THERE CAN BE A WAY TO USHER IN BETTER PUBLIC TRANSIT.

BUT THEY ARE VERY COMPETING -- THERE ARE VERY COMPETING VISIONS RIGHT NOW.

>> NOBODY IS HAPPIER ABOUT THE CICILLINE NEWS THAN -- HE THOUGHT THIS MIGHT LEAD THE WEEK.

>> THERE'’S YOUR LONDON SPOT.

[OVERLAPPING CHATTER] >> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS?

>> I HAVE NOT DONE A LOT OF REPORTING ON THIS, THE POLITICAL DISCORD BETWEEN THEM.

BUT IT'’S INTERESTING THAT TRANSIT RIDERS ARE SAYING THAT NO, THEY WANT TO KEEP HIM IN PLACE AND THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN RIPTA GOING UNDER THE DOT.

YEAH.

>> THE DOT TO THEM IS LIKE THE DEVIL.

>> THE DOT HAS BEEN SPEARHEADING THIS GET THE BUS IS OUT OF KENNEDY PLAZA AND THEY FEEL VERY ATTACKED.

THEY DON'’T WANT TO SEE US ANYMORE, THE BUS RIDERS, THEY WANT TO SHIFT US OFF TO THE SIDE.

>> SO THE LEGISLATURE DOESN'’T HAVE DIRECT BUT THERE ARE APPOINTMENTS TO THE BOARD, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE HE HAS STRONG BOARD SUPPORT.

>> SEEMS LIKE HE HAS STRONG BOARD SUPPORT.

AND THE ABILITY TO COMPLAIN LOUDLY, WHEN YOU ARE THE SENATE PRESIDENT, IT GETS EVERYBODY'’S ATTENTION.

IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHO YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE A DEAL WITH, MAKE IT WITH THE SENATE PRESIDENT, THE EMBATTLED LEADER OF RIPTA.

>> IT WAS A FUN HALF-HOUR.

WE WERE TRYING TO FIT 10 POUNDS IN A FIVE POUND SACK.

I THINK WE DID IT TODAY.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAN, IAN, AND STEPH.

CONGRATULATIONS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> IT WAS THE STORY OF THE YEAR SO FAR.

WE ARE ONLY IN FEBRUARY.

>> KUDOS TO DAN.

>> IF YOU DON'’T CATCH US AT NOON, WE ARCHIVE ALL OUR SHOWS ONLINE.

IT'’S GOING TO BE A CRAZY POLITICAL YEAR.

WE WILL BE ALL OVER IT.

I HOPE YOU JOIN US NEXT WEEK AS "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" CONTINUES.

♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY.

VISIT NCICAP.ORG] >> "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" IS GENEROUSLY UNDERWRITTEN BY -- >> FOR OVER 30 YEARS, "A LIVELY EXPERIMENT" HAS PROVIDED INSIGHT AND ANALYSIS OF THE POLITICAL ISSUES THAT FACE RHODE ISLANDERS.

I'’M A PROUD SUPPORTER OF THIS GREAT PROGRAM AND RHODE ISLAND